The Auto Body Blog

200 responses so far ↓

• 1 Anil Gurav // Jun 9, 2008 at 4:43 pm

  Great initiative by PPG.

• 2 mike // Jun 9, 2008 at 5:10 pm

  Thanks for the comment, all paint manufactures will be switching their solvent borne paint over in North America by 2010. It will be manditory by the government here in Canada.

  ~Mike.

• 3 Rich // Nov 7, 2008 at 3:08 pm

  Are all waterborne paints for automotive use basecoat/clearcoat? Is there a single stage type available? Thanks.

• 4 mike // Nov 7, 2008 at 5:35 pm

  Hi Rich, all waterborne paints are base/clear. PPG along with all other manufactures will be lowing the VOC’s in the clear coat as well. A 2.0 clear I believe it will be called.

  At this time there is no single stage waterborne paint available, but we are still using single stage for now. I will have a firm answer to this question soon Rich. I believe single stage paints will still be available after the dead line of January 2010. Single stage paints take very little solvent compared to the base coat which is usually reduced 1to 1.

  I will find the answer you are looking for here Rich.

  Thanks for the question.

  ~Mike.

• 5 mike // Jan 14, 2009 at 9:30 pm

  beeing a painter for 32 years i,ve seen some changes ,ive used
  water borne primers and found them to work on bumper covers and the results are far better than most people think,
  i look forward to the change.

• 6 mike w // Jan 14, 2009 at 9:38 pm

  being from calif. i liked using w.b mats. on covers , checked
  paint and some other apps. no solvent ,no shrinkage,to
  many painters try to use cat. primers guess what they dont
  work ,w,borne is a good prod. when used right. thanks

• 7 Jason // Jan 26, 2009 at 12:54 am

  Mike,
  I have found all of this information very help full for me. Im in washington state and am going to school to become a autobody tech. Im doing a report on W. bourne paints and I was wondering if you could e-mail me some info. I have a dead line for jan. 27 so if you could get back with me as fast as you can i would much appreciate it. thanks Mike

• 8 Arunzo // Jan 26, 2009 at 3:58 pm

  To the author – you say PPG in your opinion has the best WB and you have personaly sprayed it– well thats great but to me I would never say something was the best unless I have tried other manufacturers efforts. I have tried PPG Envirobase for a week and Dupont’s cromax pro WB for a week and to me the dupont was superior. How much do you get paid and what is your job title at PPG:) also every painter knows that on some applications you would be a fool to not use a spray out card- thats why they make waterbourne dedicated cards.

• 9 mike // Jan 31, 2009 at 2:39 pm

  Thanks Jason, I replied to your comment via your e-mail address. I would be happy to answer your questions regarding water borne paint.

  Thanks for the comment,

  ~Mike.

• 10 mike // Jan 31, 2009 at 2:54 pm

  Hey Arunzo, I have sprayed Sikkens water and my good friend was a Sikkens rep for five years. Once he sprayed PPG he was convinced that PPG was far superior than Sikkens. I have also sprayed Dupont water, a coat and a half system scares me on proper coverage. I heard Dupont changed that recently to the same way PPG is applied. I have also seen Sherwin Williams sprayed and I would not use that on my favorite fishing lure. I heard that Glasurit has gone back to the drawing board on their so called water borne. Same story with BASF, not a true water based paint. See the proof here ( The Onyx HD line makes life easier for the automotive refinisher because it is easy to apply, offers excellent covering power, complies fully with environmental regulations, and is safer to use than solvent-based products. In addition, Onyx HD tinting bases have no shelf-life limitations and will not freeze.) And will not freeze says it’s not a true water product.

  So I have either sprayed or seen sprayed almost all brands of water. I do not work for PPG or get paid by them, they couldent afford to pay me what I make now spraying vehicles all day long !!! You would be a fool not to spray out a card on all applications when using a new product, that was my point in that article. Anyways, that’s enough of trading verbal jargon about who’s the best !!! In my opinion I use the best water borne paint on the market today.

  Have a nice day,

  ~Mike.

• 11 missy // Feb 27, 2009 at 3:14 pm

  will we still be able to mix the older colors or only 2000 and newer?

• 12 john // Mar 14, 2009 at 8:13 pm

  Hey Mike, I have been in the collision repair bus. for 20 years. My current employer insists on using Sherwin Williams w.b. paints. They are terrible! I believe they are getting huge discounts to stay with S.W. Could you please E-mail me some info. and your opinion on why we should change. The upper level management won’t listen to the techs. No matter how much we struggle with the problems of S.W. We can’t even find a clear that the S.W. base does not seem to “soak up” and “dull out”.Believe me we have tried every idea in application we can possibly think of even over night base drying before clear. I have come to the conclusion that it is the material. Thankyou, John in VA.

• 13 mike // Mar 15, 2009 at 12:34 am

  Hi Missy, PPG is working every day to further thier color library and go back in time more than 10 years. That is many, many colors so this will take some time. As of right now 10 years back is what you can mix in water.

  Thanks for the question,

  ~Mike.

• 14 mike // Mar 15, 2009 at 12:54 am

  Hi John, the feedback I have heard on S.W. is not good and from your comment it seems like it is worse than the info passed on to me. I have never really heard good things about S.W. and I used the product for a month before leaving the shop I was at.

  Please let me know what kind of info you are looking for and I will be sure and pass it on to you. I can never seem to believe how management/shop owners will let people struggle and even leave/quit over a product that does not work. A painter that has sprayed for 20 years deserves the best product on the market. I mean come on, over night drying to not get die back problems is ridiculous. That would be the end of that paint for me !!! No matter how much the “Discount”, the product does NOT work and would be out of my shop promptly and replaced with PPG Envirobase HP.

  Sounds to me like they are willing to sacrifice poor quality finishes and risk employee’s for a good deal on poor quality paint. No one will want to bring thier vehicle back to your shop and therefore there will be no work. Unbelievable I must say.

  So if I can assist you in any way John I would be more than happy to do so. Keep your chin up and hopefully you can get that Sherwin Willams out of your shop.

  ~Mike.

• 15 mavel // Mar 16, 2009 at 6:42 am

  Hi Mike,

  I like to react on the following part from your reaction to Arunzo.
  ————————————–
  I heard that Glasurit has gone back to the drawing board on their so called water borne. Same story with BASF, not a true water based paint. See the proof here ( The Onyx HD line makes life easier for the automotive refinisher because it is easy to apply, offers excellent covering power, complies fully with environmental regulations, and is safer to use than solvent-based products. In addition, Onyx HD tinting bases have no shelf-life limitations and will not freeze.) And will not freeze says it’s not a true water product.
  ————————————–
  Well Mike, I don’t work for BASF (Glasurit and RM) but found an interesting explanation (thanks to good old Google).
  ————————————–
  The water enters the system through a mixing clear and a reducer during the formula weigh up. BASF officials say this unique chemistry eliminates concerns about product freeze-thaw during transport and storage as only three products in the line contain water. Additionally, the toners contain a very high concentration of pigment in a small package. These smaller packages take up less storage space, allowing shops to have a wide variety of color on hand.

  To read the whole article use this link:

  http://www.search-autoparts.com/searchautoparts/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=434745
  ————————————–
  Mike, all manufacturers use solvents in their waterborne basecoats, check some MSD Sheets and see that the average waterborne basecoat contains around 350 gram per liter (as opposed to around 750 for solvent borne basecoat). It’s still called waterborne. How much meat is there in a hamburger huh? And actually that’s not so important, it has first of all to comply with VOC legislation and be under the treshold for that category, so if paint manufacturers could fix it another way it doesn’t even need to be waterborne.

  Whilst I am here I would like to comment on 2 following article extracts as well…

  April 18, 2008

  ”You will no longer need to do a spray out card to see if your manually sprayed card matches those dyed color chips those other paint companies supply you. With PPG’s Envirobase you just look at the color chip, if it matches the vehicle you go ahead and spray the vehicle, no wasted time and material.”

  January 18, 2009

  As I have discovered, I need to do spray out cards on all colors and check for a good color match. This also creates a color library and saves time tinting down the road when a color is not acceptable. Proper documentation is a must when tinting a color.

  What’s it gonna be Mike? Yes or No?

  By the way, I especially love the 2 parts ‘those other paint companies’ and ‘those dyed color chips those other paint companies supply you’. Hilarious. You may not work for PPG or get paid by them but boy oh boy what an attitude. Your blog is plastered with PPG ads, articles etc. It may be none of my business but honestly, you may consider changing the tagline of the blog from ‘DEDICATED TO THE COLLISION REPAIR TECHNICIAN’ to ‘DEDICATED TO PPG’.

  You’d be a cool dude when you kept this comment on your blog because hey, that’s where blogs are for, to share and learn and all in the light of ‘DEDICATED TO THE COLLISION REPAIR TECHNICIAN’.

  Marc

• 16 David // Mar 18, 2009 at 11:50 am

  We started using PPG waterborne paint a few months ago. Our painters have no problems matching colors and the product quality is great.

• 17 Dominick Austin // Apr 20, 2009 at 6:55 pm

  Mike,
  Don’t let everybody get you down, no one can know everything about everything at all times and if you did, well you’d be the ultimate paint master. My question is simple. I run a small bicycle painting business and I currently have to go and buy little pints of ppg paint (which is awesome by the way). I want to do everything greener for my health and for the peace of mind of my eco-friendly customers. So when I do start mixing my own paints, I want to start it all off with PPG Waterbourne paints, instead of setting up with traditional products & equipment and then having to convert. How can i make this happen and, is there specific equipment required for using waterbourne systems? Thanks!

• 18 Richard Canada // Apr 23, 2009 at 6:14 pm

  Hi Mike
  I have been using BASF paints for most of my life I am going to be 52 soon. We switched to BASF Onyx about eight months ago My observations both good and bad are as follows;

  Good
  mixed product is easy to spray
  color matches are for the most part good
  product drys quickly
  product support is good

  Bad
  Mixing this product is awful, toners are way to thick.
  Mixing converted product requires air shaker (like oil and water)
  Shelf life of mixed product is to short
  Color max chips do not always match mixed color (they were sprayed with solvent base)
  expensive
  seems like a quick conversion to water, just to be in the running (disappointed thought it would be simply relabeled Glasurit technology)

  I am currently looking at a new system including PPG this looks the best so far, have yet to see Dupont We are a large GM dealership here in Canada the whole freezing thing is not a problem? Product is delivered to us and stored in heated shop, but I still here people mention it a lot.
  PPG chip system is nice if colors match them, only ten years back could be a problem some times?

  Just my 2 cents, Thanks for the info
  Richard

• 19 mike // Apr 23, 2009 at 8:06 pm

  Hey Mavel, I think all those fumes have gone to your head. I will leave your nice comment alone. !!! Enjoy your BASF paint, you can keep it.

• 20 mike // Apr 23, 2009 at 8:16 pm

  Hey David, thanks for the comment. Glad to hear PPG Envirobase is working well for you and your collision repair shop. It’s the number one waterborne system on the market today.
  Hope you visit again soon,

  ~Mike.

• 21 mike // Apr 23, 2009 at 8:25 pm

  Hello Dominic, when you spray PPG water you don’t really need to much as far as equipment. A hand held blower is all you need to dry the base coat. A heated area to spay in is ideal but not mandatory. So all you really need is a hand held blower and your set. The sealers and the clears are all the same as we were using with the solvent borne product. For bicycles like you are painting I would use Shopline Clear, cheep and looks really good when applied correctly.

  With saying that you’ll need a good sized compressor, nothing huge but something that will keep the air blowing to dry the base coat. Other than that you should be fine. Where abouts are you living, you can contact PPG through their website and find a local representative in your area to help you with the transition.

  Thanks for the comment and good luck with you business,

  ~Mike.

• 22 fliphkd778 // Apr 30, 2009 at 12:20 am

  Does PPG’s waterborne paint require a special gun or additional tools?

• 23 mike // Apr 30, 2009 at 6:30 pm

  Yes it does, a dedicated water borne gun. No special guns are needed, I use an Iwata W-400 LV to spray water and it woks awesome. Tree stand/s and blowers to dry the water and your off to the races.

  Thanks for the question,

  ~Mike.

• 24 Todd // Apr 30, 2009 at 10:33 pm

  Hi Mike,
  Ok, I’m trying to tackle the Waterborne automotive finishes soon.
  I’ll be purchasing a Asturo WB 5008 HVLP gun. What size tip is usually used for the PPG Envirobase WB products, basecoat and clearcoat? (1.3mm) Also since I’m a newbie what size tip for the primer? (1.8mm)
  This would be my first full auto paint job using Envirobase!

  Todd

• 25 mike // Apr 30, 2009 at 10:54 pm

  Hi Todd, thanks for the comment and question. I just checked to see what your gun looked like and it looks like you will have great finishes with this gun, almost looks like an Iwata W400.

  You need to know that water is a little thicker in viscosity than solvent is. I use a 1.4 mm Iwata W-400 to spray PPG Envirobase HP with excellent results. When I spray their clear coats, 8150, 894 or 893 clears I use a Sata Jet RP digital 1.2 mm tip. This tip size atomizes their clear into finer droplets resulting in a smoother, glass like finish. I put clear on to look like glass with two coats.

  The 1.8 mm tip will work great for their primer, I use the new 8005 primer which is compatible with the water. It is a little thinner than the older primers which were a little thicker.

  So it looks like you are on the right track Todd, water is awesome and I know you’ll love it, the colors are great and the application is very easy.

  Good luck and please let me know what you think of the PPG Envirobase HP.

  ~Mike.

• 26 khoa // May 7, 2009 at 12:03 am

  Hi I’m a ex auto refinisher/hobbyist and my full time job/business is running a resurfacing company me and my biz partner have tried many many different coatings and by homebrew waterbase not borne products and are looking for something in solid single stage white. we store clawfoot tubs and resurface countertops solid to granite faux finishes use about 2 gallons of clear a week and and haven’t found any wb clear thats under 300 so we just stick with dc92 diamont clear which builds up flat fast on our multi-spec/stone texture coatings nicely. but we hate the smell and the damn VOCs hahaha. we need something safer and do not want to sacrafice gloss at all. give me a ballpark price on WB clears out there. right now we use everything from UV instant cure coatings to 4 hour cure solvent base coatings and wb primer that smells like well water and its just so new to us we do not know how long this wb primer and topcoat will last because its produce by guys like me that have been in the resurfacing business for so long and now have had it with solvents and they go and hire chemist to formulate their own waterbase coatings. so mike or anyone out there can you help us find a strong industrial singstage coating or clearcoat that is as strong as the solvent base clears out there for good price give me prices i want to know the difference.

• 27 jason mcintyer // May 27, 2009 at 4:00 pm

  hey mike i have sprayed with an Iwata and love it. I had been using it for about 6 or so years. Then about 2 yrs. ago my Matco Dealer came to me with the dura-block 007 and I love it more than the Iwata. I was wondering if you ever sprayed with it and if so how did you like it. let me know
  thank you

• 28 matthew freeman // Jun 24, 2009 at 5:15 pm

  mike,

  this is a very good blog that you have today i finished up my PPG certification, and the trainer from allison park, PA gave us so much info on the PPG envirobase. I just also graduated from school for major collision and auto body. I was at the ONLY school on the ENTIRE EAST COAST that has PPG envirobas. thats right if you dont believe me look it up. CORNING COMMUNITY COLLEGE. I have sprayed this many times and have never had a better paint system. I only use PPG products due to the fact that when ever i had used dupont, S.W. i had bad covering with there solevents and nothing has ever gone wrong with PPG solvent bases or water boure (knock on wood). this product drys so fast its unbelievable, you get 1 half of a car done then go to the other side and by the time you finish you 2nd side the first side is already for the next coat. I cant say anything but good from this product.

  one thing i would reccomend always useing a spray out car if you are doing a blend on a car. adre

• 29 Blake // Aug 7, 2009 at 3:33 pm

  Mike, I’ve been in the refinishing business 16 short years.I just recently got a new job spraying PPG waterbourne and I was curious about the product .I heard some many great things about the prodouct.Your site has giving me the information I needed.If,guys like myself could find shops as helpful as this site appear to be. The repair busines would be in a better stage then what it is today.THANK YOU!!!!

• 30 mike // Aug 8, 2009 at 12:08 am

  Hey Matthew, I am glad to hear you are using the PPG system, Envirobase HP and its working well for you. I agree with you on the S.W and DuPont systems, they are OK but PPG in my opinion is number one. Its nice to hear you just graduated from collision school, I love this trade and I am still very passionate about refinishing vehicles almost 20 years into the business. Each color is a little different but the final result has to be perfection, color wise and overall appearance.

  Keep up the great work and keep the passion inside you, the business will treat you well.

  Sorry for the delay in my reply, please visit again soon and tell me how things are going for you.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 31 mike // Aug 8, 2009 at 12:16 am

  Hello Blake and welcome, thanks for your comment its very humbling indeed. I shall do my very best to help others who love what they do, we can vent here, we can share tips here, we can help each other with colors here and we can all get better and learn more about the water borne system in the process. I felt there was a need to share my experiences with others who can benefit from my trials and failures or success.

  One thing I can honesty say is that I will never stop learning and getting better at what I do. As we all know, some days are better than others but in the end, it was I was called to do. Paint !!!!! Prep !!!! Its my passion, it’s my career, its my bread and butter. I have been blessed with a new Job recently and I feel like getting up in the morning and giving 110% to my employers. I hope you share the same feelings and passion as I.

  Thanks so much Blake and look forward to hearing from you soon, any questions feel free to ask, chances are good I will be able to assist you.

  ~Mike.

• 32 mike // Aug 8, 2009 at 12:24 am

  Thanks Richard, your two cents are very much appreciated indeed. Freezing should not be a concern as all distributors know how to handle the situation. All water is/should be transported in closed heated vehicles. I have heard of situations where product is stored in semi-trailers while being from one point to the next, the semi breaks down or some malfunction occurs and some product freezes. It is rare though but I guess it does happen.

  The more popular colors are up to date but some of the older colors still need to be added to the system, it will take some time but all the paint manufactures are in the same boat.

  Thanks so much for you “Two Cents” feel free to comment anytime you wish. Good luck with your search on a new water system for your shop, I know what I would spray !!!!!!

  ~Mike.

• 33 Tom // Aug 20, 2009 at 8:02 pm

  I stumbled across this site in one of my Google searches. I’m Confused a bit. Is this a PPG site? Or is Mike a PPG employee or just simply a PPG Groupie? Regardless, we are all entitled to our opinions. However I do need to ask where you get your “facts”?

  ———————————————————–
  “The PPG water based paint has been used at the factory level since 1992 and is the very first water based paint. I know you have heard many stories that other paints were the first to invent this product but this is just not the case.”
  ———————————————————–

  Where did you get this information? I’d like to read all about it. I have read other material that contradicts this and would like some clarity.

• 34 mike // Aug 20, 2009 at 11:40 pm

  Tom, If that is your real name. I do NOT work for PPG. Groupie, that’s a good one. And yes we are entitled to our opinions. I noticed you never left me a link to your website, must be because you do not have one. Regardless that’s here nor there.

  So you need clarity, OK no problem, we will clear the air for you Tom. The site is my own, I built it with hard work and knowledge, 18 years in the trade. FACT is look here, notice the right side bar on the page https://corporateportal.ppg.com/NA/Refinish/PPGRefinish/2-0-Products/060_Waterborne/EN/PPGhistory If you want to get technical than ICI had the first water borne paint but PPG bought them out along with MaxMeyer in the 1990s.

  I hope that clears the air for you Tom,

  Feel free to give me some of your Facts, I look forward to hearing from you.

  ~Mike.

• 35 Andy // Aug 28, 2009 at 1:47 pm

  Sikkens has WB Clear! beat that PPG! lol i think its all personal perference.

• 36 Andy // Aug 28, 2009 at 2:49 pm

  PPG does have DCU2021 CLEAR. BE-A-U-TI-FUL CLEAR everyone can agree on that.

• 37 mike // Aug 28, 2009 at 6:25 pm

  Yes they do Andy 250 and its very good clear, I have sprayed it and I like it. It goes a long way also. PPG has water borne clear, they just cannot use it in Canada yet as it has a certain chemical in it that has not been approved by the Canadian government YET. Very soon you will see it in Canada.

  I agree with you Andy, it is personal preference to a degree.

  Thanks for the comment,

  ~Mike.

• 38 Mark // Oct 21, 2009 at 9:34 am

  Mike , We paint race cars and we paint on our graphics, so there will be one base color put down and then a paint mask will be laid over that for the top color to be put on. Then the mask will be removed and all will be cleared. What is the time for the first color to be dry enough to put the mask down and take off with out the mask peeling up the first color put down?

• 39 mike // Oct 24, 2009 at 2:29 pm

  Hello Mark, If you have enough air movement and heat combined then you should be good with 20-30 min. That should be more than enough time to let it flash before you mask it again and apply another color. Obviously you are using fine line tape and that tends to leave less tape residue than 3/4 inch or 2 inch tape does.

  Thanks for your question Mark and hope to see you back here soon,

  ~Mike.

• 40 XAM90 // Nov 21, 2009 at 9:48 am

  I recently stumbled across this blog. I find it very interesting that everyone seems to have a favorite paint. In my experience I have seen the positives and negatives of all of them. My biggest concern is drying. It seems that all waterborne paint is difficult to dry. Any ideas?

• 41 mike // Nov 21, 2009 at 8:53 pm

  Not so hard to dry at all, at least not with PPG Envirobase HP. Three ways to dry the water borne. 1. ceiling fans work great, 2. tree stands and blowers which PPG supplies (Iwata Blowers and tree stands) can be placed fairly close the the panel and also work excellent to dry the water base 3. Equip your booth with wall mounted blowers. We use a Juneair booth which has Quads installed in the booth from factory, I set the quad temp to 38 degrees Celsius 100.4 degrees Fahrenheit and hit the button on the control panel that says “Quad Start” and in four minutes each coat of water base is dry. So its really that simple, PPG dries quickly and has awesome color matches as well.

  Thanks for your comment and hope to see you back again soon.

  ~Mike.

• 42 Robert Greer // Dec 8, 2009 at 8:14 pm

  hi Mike I am a jouney level paint tech with over thirty three years of experience and have not sprayed WB color system yet.I have the chance to take over a chevy dealership bodyshop .They have a new heated down draft and have dupont WB system.I have heard good things about ppg system and alot of shops in this area are using it even though we are not required yet.I have use the DBC system for over twelve years and Ican do anything with it.My question is do I try to get the owner to switch to PPG WB or try to learn the dupont system.I know when you change a paint line you might have to pay for your current paint line to get another.Which the owner wont like .Please give me your advise.Reagards Robert Greer

• 43 mike // Dec 9, 2009 at 3:29 pm

  Hello Robert, thanks for your question and welcome to the Blog. I have heard that DuPont’s color are not so great. If it was me in your position I would push for the PPG Envirobase system to be installed in your collision repair facility. I am currently working for a Chevy dealer and we have awesome results with GM colors in PPG waterborne base coat. We are an all makes repair facility and we have excellent results with Toyota, Honda, Saab, Benz, Nissan, and most other imports.

  The way things work here is when you switch your old paint system out DuPont should buy back all your unopened stock and PPG might help you with your open toners. You will need to discuss this with your local area PPG paint representative.

  I know you will be happy you switched to PPG once you and your painter start spraying the Envirobase base coat. Success and happy customers will e coming your way !

  I hope this helps you in the decision making process. Please feel free to ask any more questions about the product and if need be, I can get you in touch with your local area representative to demo the product.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 44 Robert Greer // Dec 9, 2009 at 7:16 pm

  Thanks Mike for getting back to me so quick.I will be the painter at the GM dealer and be building the whole crew .Please check out my web site also.You would be interested in the tool I built.Thanks Robert Greer

• 45 mike // Dec 10, 2009 at 12:15 am

  No problem Robert, I checked out your website and what an awesome tool, I know for me that would make my life ALOT easier. With your permission I would like to put a link on my website to your website in hopes you can generate some sales leads from it. I would also like to write a short post and put it on the website, again with your approval. I think more tradesmen need to see this tool in action.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 46 Robert Greer // Dec 10, 2009 at 9:58 pm

  Thanks Mike as a pro paint tech you know that polishing is sometimes the most labor intensive part of the refinishing step.You are more than welcome to use my website.This technology is in its infancy.There are going to be some realy cool changes coming out for polish application.I would like to ship you a demo unit to try its the first generation unit called TG-100.Thanks Robert Greer

• 47 mike // Dec 11, 2009 at 10:18 pm

  Hey Robert, sorry for the slow reply. That would be much appreciated if you could ship me one of your TG-100 units. I would like to let my supplier see it and use it as well. I am going to send him a link to your website so he can see it for himself. I was talking to him this morning about you. He seemed very interested in looking at your site.

  I am going to add your site to my Blogroll now and what I can do is send you my mailing address in an e-mail, so you have my shipping information. Thanks so much for the offer and hope to be in touch with you soon Robert.

  ~Mike.

• 48 Bob // Dec 22, 2009 at 10:26 pm

  mike we (9 painters) went to Detroit for three days of training on standox waterborne and thought it seemed like a good paint.When we started to use it in the shop the color matches and the metal flake we’re not in the ballpark.Thanks for the open forum. It’s been an ongoing education. We need water in our shop by the end of 2012 and need to find a solution way before the deadline gets here

• 49 mike // Dec 23, 2009 at 1:47 am

  Hello Bob, I am sorry to hear that the Standox product is not working out for you. It used to be top of the line paint not so long ago. It sounds like you are part of a major collision facility.

  You are more than welcome for the open forum, we all learn that way I believe. You should take a look at PPG Envirobase HP, spray it and take a close look at your color matches. try some hard colors and see what you think of the match. If you do not need to covert to water until 2012 then at least you have some time to try the Envirobase system, I know you will like it. PPG also has many great programs to help your business grow and prosper.

  Please feel free to ask any questions you need answers to here, if I dont have the answer I will find it for you.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 50 Kevin // Dec 25, 2009 at 5:57 pm

  Would likr to know after clear can you wet sand and buff ? I am new to the waterborn and want give it a try. On some of new choppers in the shop. Thanks

• 51 mike // Dec 25, 2009 at 8:51 pm

  Hey Kevin, yeah there is no problems with wet sanding and polishing your clears when you are done the job. I do it all the time with no issues. Once you try water it’s hard to go back to solvent.

  Thanks for your question, if you have any more questions please feel free to ask me.

  ~Mike.

• 52 pete // Dec 27, 2009 at 6:31 pm

  Mike …..been a painter for 30 years when base coat clear coat came out we started with dbu worked great dbc even better once they came out with dx57 ….then we here in California last year had to go to water base ..we went wth envirobase …i employ a young painter and he was eager to make the change and very open to it WOW what a breezzeee it was he was very happy and very easy to paint and color matching great you always have a few but the few color matches that didnt match were a short int here and there and DONE …well our contract with ppg was up and our supplier said ppg couldnt do much for us and he wanted to switch to sikkens they would take better care of us ..so we let them bring it in and started painting …..My painter hate it you have to spray with more air pressure ,gotta change your paint tips 1.3 no good gotta have 1.4 , when you pour your mix in the container you have to stir it before you add your water ,????? are you kidding me .the computer is so confusing code 50 on a chevrolet a list of 25 codes try picking the right one for that what a pain good thing we didnt sign a contract …im pulling it out after 2 weeks …PPG is way simple less products no rules it is what it is very user friendly were switching back tommorow …in my opinion the easier the better less room for mistakes we alraedy have enough on our minds than to complicate things any more than it already is …thats my opinion and trust me we tried to make it work color chips were never right on you couldnt look and pick that one chip that said im it ! ppg there was always that one hat just stood out …IF IT WORKS DONT FIX IT …….ENOUGH SAID ! Im glad i found thi site its renforced my decision……..thanks Pete

• 53 mike // Dec 27, 2009 at 7:13 pm

  Pete, thanks for your comment. I feel your frustrations coming through in your comment. It sucks when you have to fight with colors and pull your hair out learning a new paint system. I noticed the same things you did, when you pull the Sikkens color chips from the variant deck they were not exactly as you spray them out. If I was a Sikkens customer/shop owner who was spraying their water, I would make them come in and manually spray all my most popular colors. Imagine how long that would take them!!!!

  That was one selling point for me, PPG color variant deck chips were exactly as you sprayed them on your spray-out cards. This instills confidence in us painters and makes daily painting as smooth as it can be. Like you said, you get bad colors here and there but for the most part they are great. Also I am adding to my import color library as sometimes there are no color chips for certain import car manufactures. But the good news is they are going to be updating the color chips very soon and we will see more import colors included in that update.

  I also agree with what you say, the simpler the paint and the application process the better. That way the paint process becomes fool proof. Customers are happy that their vehicle color matches perfectly, and it shines like it never has before. After all that is what people see upon pick up of the car.

  So thanks for your comment Pete, I’m glad you found the site also and I encourage you to visit often. I will be posting new articles frequently.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 54 billy duggins // Dec 31, 2009 at 12:03 am

  gotta say i , love all this back and forth.. I am PPGcertified and i would use nothing else other than Envirobase HP. We switched from nexa Autocolor abot 9 months ago. This is the only WB i have used but if what you got is good,Why worry about the others.
  Now to my question. You said u use a iwata LPH400-lv. Which one? silver cap orange cap or purple cap? I currently use a silver cap. Also have you ever used a w-400 to spray wb? I did use it for clear but since we started useing D8152 clear(global)
  i found my rp with a 1.4 does better? Thank you and by the way you are exactly right about PPG’s take over of wateborne technology from ici. If u cant beat it buy it…

• 55 juan // Jan 12, 2010 at 12:59 am

  HI MIKE
  I HAVE USED CROMAX PRO FOR A YEAR AND HALF AND LET ME TELL YOU THAT THIS PRODUC IS BY FAR THE WORST PAINT LINE I’VE TRIED. ITS VERY DIFICULT TO APLY AND VERY DIFUCULT TO BLEND DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE METALICS LOOK DIFERENT IT JUST DOES NOT LOOK OEM.IN ADITION THE SIDE TONE ON PLAIN SILVERS ALWAYS LOOKS MILKY. I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THEIR BINDERS,CONTROLER AND BLENDER ARE RESPONSIBLES FOR ALL THE PROBLEMS WHITH THIS PAINT.FINALLY THE SHOP I WORK FOR SWITCH TO PPG EMVIROBASE AND LET ME TELL YOU ITS A SUPERIOR PRODUCT NOT ONLY FOR HOW EASY IT’S TO APLY IT BUT ALSO FOR THE LOOKS IT TRULY LOOKS OEM.I’VE BEEN PAINTING SINCE I WAS SEVENTEEN I’VE USED MANY DIFERENT BRANDS INCLUDING SHERWIN WILLIAMS,90 LINE BY GLASURIT,CROMAX,LE BEAR AND SIKKENS. THEY ALL HAVE DIFERENTS CARACTERISTICS BUT THE ONE I BELIVE ITS THE BEST NOT ONLY FOR APLYCATION OR THE COLOR MATCH BUT FOR THE VERSATILITY OF BEING ABLE TO TURN INTO A SINGLE STAGE FOR JAMBS IS 90 LINE BY GLASURIT.AND AS FAR THE COVERGE IS NOT REALLY A PROBLEM. ITS FANY TO SEE HOW A LOT A PAINTERS ARE HAVING THIS PROBLEM THEY NEVER STOP TO THINK THAT BY USING THE RIGH SHADE OF SEALER OR PRIMER WILL AVOID O LOT OF PROBLEMS.

• 56 mike // Jan 15, 2010 at 12:57 am

  Hello Juan, welcome to the autobodyblog. Thanks for your comment. Glad to hear you are enjoying the ease of Envirobase HP. I have heard DuPont is not the way to go as far as water borne is concerned. I am glad I am able to use Envirobase every day, like you stated on shades of sealer, if you mix the right shade of sealer than coverage is usually only two plus the control coat. Some reds and the odd yellow needs a coat or two extra I find.

  I used to love the 90 line by Glasurit, they had an awesome product. I used to love Sikkens back in the day also, but once I switched to PPG its hard to go back to the old stuff. There was nothing like the old 3+1 primer from Sikkens, I loved that stuff.

  Anyhow, glad to hear you are using PPG and are happy with the product, I know I am.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 57 ALEKS AUTO BODY WORKS AND COLLISION // Jan 15, 2010 at 11:19 am

  THIS IS A HIGH QUALITY PAINT WITH GOOD COVERAGE VERY LITTLE SMELL. SOME COLOURS ARE OFF BUT AT LEAST THEY HAVE VARIANT DECKS TO WORKS WITH

• 58 sparky // Jan 17, 2010 at 9:17 am

  Hi there!
  I’m hoping that I came to the right place.
  Yesterday I was`invited to a grand opening of a brand new bodyshop here in Portland Oregon. The co-owner of such bodyshop shows me the PPG paint mixing system in this booth . What I saw was a bunch of paint quart all line-up in this rack system that are held in place with a handle sticking out ready to grab on and pull! To the far right and on the bottom shelf I see this motor that is coupled with this gear box that looks it would an agitator, then there is rod that goes through each self of this system that seems to shake each can of paint at the same time. I am an electrician, and the owner tells me the motor has to be wired in a explosion proof manner. The system is installed on a wall, all I would have to do would be to line up the threaded part of the motor connection ,drill a hole through the wall put a short piece of threaded conduit (explosion proof) and have the other end of the pipe go into a junction box (mounted on the outside wall of the booth that is not explosion proof area) and provide power to the motor by ways of metallic flex from an existing circuit. I have never worked with explosion proof stuff, any information you provide me will greatly appreciated.

  thanks.

• 59 pete // Jan 17, 2010 at 7:29 pm

  I have a answer to the explosion proof wiring im not a electrician but we had to do that basically they dont want you pluging your motor that drives the paint machine into the wall via plug to socket .It just needs to be hard wired in …its goofy but a motor is close to paint if it should spark there would be a danger of fire thats it …..its not a big deal if you know basic wiring you could do it but if you dont it wont cost you much for a electrican to come in and do it ….

• 60 pete // Jan 17, 2010 at 7:49 pm

  Mike ,I have a question about moneys given to shops ….can you tell me normal practices in business. When we first opened our shop we were with out contract and having no really record but coming from a well known shop and our jobber knowing us personaly and supplying us with our side work materials ..me and my partner with credit rating of close to 900 we got 36,000 dollars up front money .We had the guy that was our jobber used to work for ppg …He had some one over him who s still at ppg in the same position…..lets put it this way this guy is a royal dick. Let me ell you were we are in the world to get a persective ..we are in Californis we are located in he central valley right in the middle of the state .We are what is considered the good ol boy area we are a prime market for big industry were no L.A we arnt San Fransico..This S.O.B. has the say over all the feild guys in our area …We all have heard the shop owner im talking about …that this guy braggs on how he short changes with pay out contracts and keeps his numbers low and is very proud of that fact .We had a deal with finish masters and PPG for 40,000 dollars up front mony and a rebate for 1,200 a month ….we were ready to sign this deal would have really helped us out ..just before we signed they called back and said we had not finished our contract ..Our jobber told us we had ,ppg never called our jobber to get the figures from him .I am convinced they had to show it to this upper guy and he just did the 5%liqued per year average and said no way . This all started because our original jobber tried to get us 50,000 for a 5 year deal and he rolld his eyes and said we dont do that any more ! I love PPG but im sure they dont know what this guy is doing out in the field ….Whats your take on this
  I know this is long winded but just wonder whats happening around the company ..this gives PPG a black eye like they dont care about there customers

• 61 pete // Jan 17, 2010 at 7:52 pm

  a correction in my pragraph up above WE ARE NOT IN A PRIME MARKET AREA

• 62 mike // Jan 17, 2010 at 9:28 pm

  Pete, thanks for helping out to answer Sparky’s question. Hopefully he has a better understanding of what and why this needs to be accomplished.

  As per your question on moneys given out for contracts from PPG, when I was a rep they based the monies on how many square feet the shop was and how many people the shop employed. Then we asked the shop owner how much paint he/she was going through per year. We just calculated the “Juice/liquids and NOT the sundries. Our PPG rep then submitted the numbers in to his boss and we came up with an up front investment from PPG to the shop owner. We were also able, as the jobber to help the shop owner with equipment he/she needed to get set up for water as we were no longer selling solvent.

  So to make a long story short here, it sounds like your local PPG personal are basing their investment on the size and number of people your shop employs. I know when we were looking to seriously gain a reputable shop’s business, we as the jobber would kick in monies as well to make the shop owner either 1. switch over or to PPG or 2. an existing account to keep PPG as their paint line.

  I don’t see why there is politics in your situation. It sounds to me like you need to get ahold of PPG and get the facts on your existing contract. If you are still in a contract with your current jobber, than how long do you have left in your contract. Also it sounds to me like you are changing jobber to “Finish Masters”. Can finish masters make up the difference in monies that your friend from PPG says he not going to do.

  As per this statement “I love PPG but I’m sure they don’t know what this guy is doing out in the field ….Whats your take on this. My take on this is, maybe the head office needs to hear about your situation. You can write a letter to PPG and ask them what their business practices are and present them your current situation. Hopefully they can provide you with some answers that you are looking for. It does not matter if you are in a prime market area or not. The good ol boys still count right Pete !!!!

  Hopefully that helps you out, please let me know what the outcome of your situation ends up being.

  Thanks Pete,

  ~Mike.

• 63 rich // Jan 17, 2010 at 11:35 pm

  I am in PA and only recently heard about the waterbourne knee jerk reaction to big like, global warming. I restore and paint about 1 car per year in my home garage. I have always used RM products. Since I can not buy a waterbourne paint booth, dryers, etc. or install filters and afterburners for other “low VOC” paints, is my time as a restoration enthusiat over? Are there waterbourne paints in existence or being developed that can be applied with conventional equipment for a person like myself?

• 64 mike // Jan 18, 2010 at 1:24 am

  Hey Rich, your question is a valid one. You do NOT need all the fancy water borne booths and afterburners and NO your days of being a restoration enthusiast are not over. Water borne paint requires a dedicated paint gun used only for water. If you own more then one gun then just clean it up and ONLY use it for water borne base coat. You can buy a hand held blower for cheep and you can use that to dry the basecoat. If you need to you can let the base coat air dry if you don’t want to buy a hand held blower. This will take some time but it will dry with enough heat and air movement.

  PPG’s Envirobase is applied with the same paint gun as I had with solvent borne base coat. I never changed the way I sprayed the water borne base coat. So to answer your question, PPG’s Envirobase HP can be applied exactly the same way as you are using solvent base now. I can spray, If legal in my area, water borne paint in my garage with the same gun I was using before.

  So you are still in business and you do not need to buy all this extra equipment to get your job done.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 65 rich // Jan 19, 2010 at 12:02 am

  What a relief! I have been hearing so many conflicting stories. I have no problem buying a new $500 paint gun or some other reasonable accessories. They don’t last forever anyway.

  It sounds like after someone gets familar with the paint (as is always the case) the biggest concern would be dirt inclusion. My concern with the blowers is really one of contaminates in the paint. As you are aware, even with the best efforts, it tough to control dust in a garage without a booth. I can take additonal measures like plastic curtains, putting in a smaller exhaust fan and limiting its use to name a few.

  While it appears it takes waterbourne paint much longer to fully cure, how do the “dust free” or “tack free” times compare? If it is only a couple of hours more, that is not bad, but if it is, say, 24 hours, then contaminate control will be the most difficult part of this effort.

  Thanks in advance for your help. I at least have some hope now.

• 66 mike // Jan 19, 2010 at 1:05 am

  Yeah no worries Rich, fear not you will be a pro in no time. Even in my Juneair booth which is brand new, it seems like I get more dust than I did when I sprayed solvent. I cant really put my finger on it as my routine has never really changed. But with more air movement in the booth comes more dust. I keep tacking between coats of base which helps solve the dust issue in most cases.

  For you I would advise you to spray your project in the summer months on a calm day and then open your garage door a little after you have sprayed your first coat of base and do this after each application, that way your base will flash off relatively quickly with the air flow and heat combined. You will be looking at start to finish, 2-3 hours and then you can clear coat with no issues.

  Thanks Rich,

  ~Mike.

• 67 billy duggins // Jan 21, 2010 at 7:15 pm

  hey mike, want to say thanx for the advice u gave me on lowering the booth temp. it solved some of the problems i was seeing!! Now i want o ask u about another isue i ahve been having, on some gold and silvers i have noticed a mottleing on the hood. do you have any suggestions to liminate this blotchy appearance? Like i sid it oly seems to be silver, gold usally limited to a hood or a flat surface. One more thing, to all the bloggers out there: when this guy(mike) tells you something,its true,he is very smart on this water!!
  billy

• 68 guy bina // Jan 22, 2010 at 12:14 am

  mike great forum my question is how come you never mention t588 base coat hardner ? and what is the advantage or disadvantage thank you wyoming proud guy bina.

• 69 mike // Jan 22, 2010 at 11:14 pm

  Hey Billy, glad to hear the advice I gave you is working for you, that is a success. As per your question on the mottling issue. Here is what I suggest. When I spray a good hiding color I spray the first coat on heavy, almost like I want coverage in one coat. Then on the second coat I put the base on lighter and my gun speed is quicker. I also increase my gun distance from the panel to make the second coat look uniform. So now my base is looking more uniform and even.

  Then I apply my control coat and let dry. I check the look of the base when dry and sometimes on silvers and golds, I apply a second control coat and that will take care of the blotchy appearance.

  Thanks for the compliment as well Billy,

  ~Mike.

• 70 mike // Jan 22, 2010 at 11:18 pm

  Hey Guy, welcome to the Blog. As per your question on the T588, I have never used it as I have heard the is no reason too. So I really see no need to add something to the base to activate it. I do however use the T580 and T581 on some inner applications.

  Thanks for your question and hope to see you here again soon.

  ~Mike.

• 71 billy duggins // Jan 23, 2010 at 12:02 am

  hey mike i heard you mention t580?? what is this? t581 is for engine bay, but 580? I was told unless you are doing warranty repair like GM(which requires the base to be activated) you dont need t588,not to mention it greatly changes the viscosity. thank you for the advice

• 72 Bob G // Feb 10, 2010 at 12:19 pm

  hey mike, have any knowledge of the martin senour tech system as far as color match is concerned. and how is their wb system.

• 73 Larry // Feb 19, 2010 at 10:44 am

  Hi Mike,great site you have,I would like to point out that the Dupont Cromax Pro has a huge following with over 1400 customers in the U.S. and Canada.They have sprayed alternate decks,with an awesome match,one coat coverge followed by an half coat with no flash time,and no they have not changed it to the be like the ppg flash between coats,this technology stems from the Spies Hecker water system.Were going into the booth spraying the car walking out to clean the gun,and in down draft Garmat with the Garmat Fans and in 8 to 12 minutes its ready for clear,were seeing complete cycles including bake cycle in 40 to 45 minutes,it is an awesome product.Oh yea as far as being scared of the coverage in 1 and 1/2 coats weve never seen a time when it wasn’t covered,were not using any hand blowers and getting the cleanest jobs we’ve ever got.

• 74 mike // Feb 19, 2010 at 4:16 pm

  Hello Larry, thanks for the compliment on the site. I am happy to hear that DuPont has such a great following in the US and Canada. I am also glad to hear that it is working out for you and the people you know. As I know being a professional painter, there is nothing more frustrating than fighting with colors all day, every day. Also, speed and cycle times are very important to me also being a flat rate technician.

  If you are a professional like I am, It takes minimal time to get to know a system, whether it be PPG’s, DuPont’s, RM and so on. I have no doubt in my mind that in one week I will get to know any paint system, have the jobs look better than your trainers or tech reps and have no dust in the jobs. I don’t say this to make you think I am better than, it is because I use the paint every day. I teach my tech reps and trainers as I am in the field, they are in the lab. The facts are Larry, they are all awesome products if applied correctly and you have the technical know how.

  With the new clear coat from PPG, EC 700 and EC 750 my cycle times have improved with the one visit clear. I am ready to clear in 9 minutes, we use a Juneair booth that I can adjust the blower temperature and have each coat of base flashed off in 3 minutes. So I clear coat after 9 minutes and bake for 30 minutes. So that takes me to 39 minutes total. Now this is 2 coats of base and a control coat which is 2 and a half coats. That gives me piece of mind using 2 plus a control coat. We all know that every color is not perfect but the one’s that are not good or say poor, I tint and then document all color corrections and file the spray out card away for a later date in case that color comes my way again.

  So Larry I am glad to hear all is well with you and you are having success.

  ~Mike

• 75 Leon // Feb 22, 2010 at 11:47 am

  Mike, this open forum is a great idea. I see you have to survive a few barbs now and again. Providing an open forum to discuss waterborne is fantastic, anyone who reads this can make informed decisions rather than just operating in the dark or on a salemans word. GOOD WORK.

• 76 mike // Feb 23, 2010 at 1:11 am

  Hello Leon and welcome to the Blog. Glad to hear you are enjoying what you are reading. Being criticized is part of the gig. when you put yourself out to the world there are many people who will not agree with you and even some who are down right nasty. What you have to do is let is run off your back and not take it personally. You need to keep doing what you love to do, I love to help people succeed when they fall short. If I can help one I feel gratitude, if I help many then it makes it all worth it for me.

  Please feel free to drop by our Blog often and leave a comment or ask a question. I will be happy to chat with you again soon.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 77 Digger // Mar 9, 2010 at 5:53 am

  Hello
  Just been having a read about the ppg water base, my shop is putting it in at the end of the week.
  I have used the glasurit system in another shop before and thought it was really good.
  So let u know what i think of ppg.
  Will write back.
  Thanks

• 78 Ryan // Mar 11, 2010 at 4:43 pm

  Hey Mike, I have been using envirobase for just over two tears. I love it! It ease of use and color matches make it a fast process. My only complaint and I want to see if you notice it too, is the occasional chunk of color that gets spit out on panels. For example, On a silver color(I tend to notice it the most with this color) if there is a blue toner say T415, It will spit little chunks of that toner in the silver making tiny little blue specks in the finish. Its not terribly noticeable but I see it and its a bit frustrating. I use the 3m pps system with the appropriate micron filter and I also pre-filter using 125micron strainers. Is it just me, or do you have this problem too?

• 79 mike // Mar 11, 2010 at 8:24 pm

  Hey Ryan, welcome to our Blog. I used to see that quite often, little blue or red dots in the paint. I thought it was not straining properly myself but that’s not the problem, the problem is that the pigments are not mixing together correctly. What you need to do is shake the mixed base before you spray it to get rid of the blue dots. If your PPS cup is full or you mix 18 oz of paint in your 16300 cups, than you can shake it for about 1 minute until all the toners mix together properly. If you use the 16324 cups, then mix 23 oz which will only leave a little room in the cup. Shake the paint by hand until you know all the paint has mixed together. There is not enough air in the cup to cause the paint to bubble and make it un-sprayable. If you only mix say half the cup of paint and shake it to much, then you will see the major bubbles form. So don’t shake it too much if you only mix small amounts in a 16300 PPS cup or the 16324 cup. Instead, stir it more than you normally do now to get all the colors to bind together.

  That should do the trick Ryan, I had the same issue and I solved it by shaking the paint to get rid of my irritating blue or red dots. Like you said, silvers are the worst for this issue. I hope that solves your issue, please write back and let me know if that corrects the problem.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 80 Nic // Mar 25, 2010 at 12:26 am

  mike,

  Im new to the refinishing business but have been blasting classics and newer cars and parts for years. I now do 5-6 compete builds a year and a few collision jobs, I have tried out a few waterborne paints one being PPG and i liked it. I also used one called gen20 by genstar and found it to be comparable to PPG. have you heard of it? used it? if not could you try it out and let me know what you think… Really the problem i have is the people where i live that sale PPG are not a reputable company i cant rely on them they dont know how to mix paint. and they dont care about the customer im not in a position to put a bank in so i have to rely on my suppler alot. also have you ever shot a complete in waterborne thats what i would like to do next and would love some tips thank for all the great info hope to here from you soon.

• 81 Ryan // Mar 30, 2010 at 12:59 pm

  Hi Mike,
  Yes that has seemed to correct the problem. I still pre-strain it before I pour it in the PPS cup. Works great! Now I officially have no complaints with the Envirobase! Thanks for the advice!

  -Ryan

• 82 mike // Mar 30, 2010 at 6:14 pm

  Hey Ryan, yeah no worries. It is still good to strain your base as sometimes, especially when a color has allot of T491 in it, you will get that dry powder pouring into the mix as it comes out of the bottle. I strain all my colors to make sure I have a clean looking finish every time.

  Hope all is going well for you and hope to see you back on the Blog again soon. If you have any others questions feel free to ask me.

  ~Mike.

• 83 mike // Mar 30, 2010 at 6:53 pm

  Hello Nic and sorry for the delay in my reply to you. I am not able to spray any other brand of paint as we are under contract with PPG so I have not tried the paint you mentioned in your comment, Genstar.

  I have sprayed many completes with PPG Envirobase HP and love using it for total re-spray’s. The reason I love it is once you lay down your control coat the base is perfectly uniform with will look awesome for your restoration jobs. If you try it I know you will love it.

  Thanks for the comment and see you back here soon,

  ~Mike.

• 84 Big Dave // Apr 7, 2010 at 12:38 pm

  Hey Mike
  Iv’e been using PPG waterbourne with great results! I no longer use the blowers. I crank up the heat in the booth to 90 then go to work..after the base is applied..i take temp back to 75 for the clear coats…Works fine and between the base coats like the old days 7 to 10 minute flash and im busy getting another ready.Being a flat rate painter im impressed with this line.
  And yes 3+1 was magic in its day.lol! Was a sikkens painter for 8 years, but not a fan of their waterbase..slower dry times. If i was to open a shop it would be either PPG or ICI that would be put in place….and ya i wouldnt paint a lure with SW awhacked waterbase either..TC Mike and great site by the way!!!

• 85 Jay // Apr 30, 2010 at 10:45 pm

  Mike,

  Learned a bit here reading up on PPG and water based paints. I am having my 77 Fiat Spyder restored and i am at the painting stage. My guy has the car completely sanded out and primed and now is where I worry… the previous paint was a lacquer and pretty it was. I am an oil based guy as I do interiors of homes….

  Ben Moore makes the only water based paint I like called AURA. Its damn expensive but worth it. As for the car what should I read up on before I give the green light. I live in California and LA at that. Am I going to be less happy with a water based coat on my baby Italia!

  If you could give me a 1, 2 , 3 of what to ask or demand from my painter that would be appreciated. Is there different quality paints made by PPG? Thats the paint line he want to use. We also discussed the one step, two step and three step processes… any input would be helpful, Thanx Jay

• 86 Brian // May 1, 2010 at 7:56 pm

  What about custom airbrush work such as on motorcycle paint jobs? Is the waterborne paint compatible with airbrushes in order to do detail work? What about the candy type colors I see flame artists use – are there comparable waterborne paints? And pinstriping? What are your thoughts on the future of custom painting with the waterborne system? Excellent forum you have going here, by the way…very knowledgable

• 87 mike // May 1, 2010 at 10:57 pm

  Hello Jay, you are going to be more happy with the water based paint on your car. I would use water on my car if I was restoring it. Easier to lay out metallic colors as water is easier to eliminate blotch. The control coat takes care of this.

  So the 1,2,3 goes like this, ask him to seal the entire vehicle. Apply the Enviobase HP and blow dry, apply the control coat and let air dry 15 minutes and then go ahead and clear coat using D894 High solids clear if you are able to use it in California, VOC regulations may prohibit the use of this clear coat but your painter would know if you can use it or not.

  The higest quality paint from PPG is Envirobase HP, Gloabal was the highest in the solvent line, then Deltron, then Shopline, Omni and lastly Value Pro.

  Hope that helps you out Jay, please feel free to ask any further questions if you have any.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 88 Jay // May 3, 2010 at 10:26 am

  Thanx Mike, You answered some of the 1,2,3′s now the 4,5,6′s!

  Why are there so many levels of paint? And what cost basis would I expect to see from bottom to top? Where would you draw the line at? Top two?

  Are all the levels going to require same labor/work? Seems when you ask for higher cost products they want to charge more for job. Should that be the case?

  I also saw some samples of jobs I liked but they were three step process. More cost. Why is that the better looking job?

  And the final coat. You say use d894. That would be oil based. Surely against LA County rules. Should I even paint my car in this city! What would be the best equal if I am stuck with another product. And what does the lesser product lose me?

  Cheers Jay

• 89 mike // May 9, 2010 at 10:32 pm

  Hello Jay, sorry for the late reply. So many levels of paint because every paint manufacturer sells to many different level of shops. What I mean by that is some shops are high quality and only do high end work, therefore they use the best or top of the line products. Then there are shops that do say allot of rental cars and they have a certain budget to adhere to, therefore they would use a lower line of a paint manufacturer’s product as they have a limit on material cost’s. Going further, the paint companies do fleet vehicles and industrial equipment, so they use another line of the same paint manufactures product. I hope that makes sence to you.

  The clear coat I suggested you use is an acrilic urathane product and should be available for you to use as long as it meets the VOC regulations in your area. This clear when sprayed properly can look like glass, I use three coats on high end vehicles, the first coat I apply medium and let flash for 15-20 minutes and then the next coat I apply a little heavier and let dry 15 minutes and then the third I apply slow and heavy to create that deep glassy look. It looks so deep you can see your reflection in it.

  Now in terms of labor, when I prepare (prep) a vehicle I final sand with 800 grit dry sandpaper, that is standard no matter if it’s a two stage paint job or a three stage paint job. The vehicle is then blown off and wiped down. The tri-stage paint job takes more labor time then the two stage paint job as you are putting on more base and that requires the base to dry longer. So as per cost of the job going up, yes that will affect the overall coat of the paint job. It will cost more for the paint and more for the labor time. In a shop we get paid tri-stage time. Here is an example, a two stage paint job pays me 10 hours for John Doe’s car but for a tri stage paint job it pays me 15 hours. So for a complete John Does car is 30 hours for a two stage paint job, but for a tri stage it pays me forty hours.

  So finally, I would ask your painter or the local PPG rep if you can use D894 clear coat and price out the cost of a tri stage paint job over the two stage paint job. If you plan on driving the car every day then I would suggest the two stage route, if you need to repaint the vehicle down the road it will save you some cash, but if you only show the car and have tons of cash, then go the tri stage route.

  Thanks Jay and good luck with you 77 Fiat.

  ~Mike.

• 90 mike // May 9, 2010 at 10:55 pm

  Hey Brian, almost missed your comment, my apoligies. The future of custom work and air brushing will be water borne. Many states will be mandated to change from the solvent based product to the water based product. Canada will be completly water based next month, June 2010. Many customs guys are already using water and loving it, I believe the Vibrance collection is available in water. There are pearls, candy’s and the likes in water as far as I know.

  I hope that answers your question Brian and thanks for the comment and questions.

  ~Mike.

• 91 Jay // May 22, 2010 at 10:43 am

  Mike, if I go without the metallic and do not clear coat any pointers on that? Jeff

• 92 mike // May 22, 2010 at 10:38 pm

  Yeah Jeff that will look awesome for sure. Single stage looks great when sprayed using a final coat of clear mixed in with the single stage. Here is what I do when I spray single stage. I mix enough for two coats of coverage, I then spray one coat quickly which the vehicle is not fully covered. I then put my second coat on wet and get full coverage and let both coats dry for 15-30 min depending on temperature. I then mix D894 clear coat into the single stage paint and put one final coat on the vehicle.

  It is important to note that I separately mix my clear coat and then add it to the already mixed single stage paint and stir it properly. I add the clear coat to the paint because it gives the paint better hold out from UV rays.

  I would use PPG Global single stage and mix D894 clear coat into the single as I have described.

  ~Mike.

• 93 Jay // May 23, 2010 at 9:18 pm

  not envirobase? and will most painters get the “add clear to the single stage solid”….?

• 94 Jay // May 24, 2010 at 12:17 am

  Hey Mike… where can i find the current PPG colors…? looked everywhere can find various years or makes but nothing newer……

• 95 mike // May 24, 2010 at 11:57 am

  Hello Jeff, you have to clear coat Envirobase as it is a base clear application. You can spray solid colors in Envirobase HP but they will need to be clear coated.

  You will need to talk to a PPG representative for all the new or old colors, or go to a shop where they have color books so you can look at all the colors you want.

  Some painters will add clear to the single stage but alot will not. You will need to request that from your painter if you want it done to your vehicle. I would add the clear to the single stage if I was painting my car a solid color.

  ~Mike.

• 96 Jay // May 29, 2010 at 11:08 pm

  how much clear? How many layers in a single stage is good… 6+? And does adding the clear to some single stage not allow mw to have that “no barrier” to the paint when waxing or touch ups?

• 97 Wayne // Jul 16, 2010 at 1:00 pm

  Is ppg water based paint ICI and ppg just bought the company for their water based line??? And you talk like ppg came up with it,no they bought it.

• 98 mike // Jul 16, 2010 at 6:28 pm

  Hello Wayne, PPG has their own line of water borne paint called Envirobase and ICI now Nexa has their own line of water borne paint. They are both very similar but I feel PPG has better clear coats then the Nexa line.

  Also PPG was in the development process with their line of water borne when they acquired ICI for their water technology. They also bought Max Meyer’s for their technology. Once they acquired both companies they finished their water borne line of Envirobase. With the acquisition of both ICI and Max Meyer’s they used these companies to produce the BEST water borne paint on the market today.

  http://www.ppg.com/coatings/maxmeyerengland/Pages/1000_History.aspx

  Thanks for the comment,

  ~Mike.

• 99 Ed // Aug 8, 2010 at 11:11 pm

  Hey Mike,
  We are currently using onyx WB. We do a lot bumpers and spot repairs- doors, fenders ect.. we have an opportunity to really increase our business . As you know when doing bumpers and spot repairs color matching is a huge issue. Have been using onyx for the past four months. Some colors take a ton of time to dry. Most times we have to tint and do a lot of spray outs to get colors acceptable to prevent kicking it out into other panels. Time, materials and frustration is not helping. We recently had S.W. come for a couple of days for demo purposes. Still have lots of questions. Color matching with them looks like an issue also. From reading above info looks like we should look at PPG ?

• 100 mike // Aug 8, 2010 at 11:54 pm

  Hello Ed, thanks for the comment. One thing you need to know right off the bat is PPG is just in the process of updating their color library. My variant deck is back at the jobber/distributor right now getting 200 out of 700 colors updated. Within the next six months or so I will have all the 800 colors updated.

  The one thing I know for sure is PPG has awesome color matches. I hate to admit this but I butt match many colors that most painters would laugh at and say NO WAY. Most of the time I blend but sometimes I have to butt match as that’s what I get paid for.

  So I know you will LOVE the colors in PPG’s library. You need to take a look at this system, after one week you will not want any other water system in your facility. It dries fast, you can sand it after it dries, you can do spot repairs with it with no haloing or any other common issues, and the colors are bang on for the most part and the one’s you have problems with just send me a question and I will help you out with your color problems.

  So try it out and let me know what you think!

  Thanks so much for the comment Ed, your welcome here anytime.

  ~Mike.

• 101 Dalton // Aug 12, 2010 at 11:05 am

  Our shop has been converted to PPG Envirobase for 9 months, and did not have any issues at all. Color match, spray ability, dry ing etc it could not be better, even in high humidity dries great. Anyone looking to convert, please give PPG a try, you will be impressed. I done research prior to this conversion and this is what we chose. PPG has their act together and does agreat job with representation and ongoing support.

• 102 mike // Aug 12, 2010 at 7:17 pm

  Hello Dalton, it is the winner by far when it comes to water borne base coat. PPG Envirobase HP becomes easier and easier to use the more you spray it. I have great success with this awesome product and I am glad to hear you are having great success as well.

  Thanks for your comment Dalton,

  ~Mike.

• 103 finishmaster // Aug 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm

  Hey Mike,
  What has been your experience with abrasives for prep, blending and finishing on PPG’s waterborne finishes? Have you heard of or used Eagle Abrasives line? e.g., Yellow Film, Tolex, Buflex, Super Assilex…

• 104 NEAC & Tow // Aug 18, 2010 at 1:51 pm

  Hello Mike,
  We’ve been in business in Ontario, Canada since 1989. After a long period of debating the pros and cons as to whether we should switch over to waterborne or retire, we have decided to keep going. We are also going with PPG. To make this short…where do we start? We have a supplier, but what “basic” equipment is needed? (for now, to get started) What type of gun? Any other suggetions?

  Thank you!
  Cindy

• 105 mike // Aug 19, 2010 at 4:33 pm

  Hello Cindy, thanks for the questions. You should be good with the equipment you have. How many man shop do you have, this is important for the size of your compressor.

  As per equipment such as paint guns, your PPG representative should supply you with a paint gun per booth, so if you have two booths then you will receive two Iwata W-400 LV paint guns. That is the gun I prefer to use for PPG Envirobase HP. They will also provide you with two tree stands and blowers (Iwata) for your paint booths. Other then that you are ready to go.

  Your PPG paint rep should be with you for the first couple of days when you start to spray the water borne.

  If you have any other questions or concerns feel free to drop me a message here on the Blog and I will answer your concerns as soon as I can.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 106 DON DEITER // Aug 26, 2010 at 9:04 pm

  all this talk on the water bourne system was great but what clears can we use over it does it take a speacial clear.

• 107 mike // Sep 7, 2010 at 7:48 pm

  Hello Don, PPG has two new clears out to use with Envirobase HP, EC700 and EC750. This is the clear you use with the water bourne base coat. If you have any other questions feel free to ask away.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 108 mimi // Sep 15, 2010 at 2:49 pm

  hi mike,
  have you work with waterbase dupont paint? if yes, how would you compare dupont to ppg waterbase? thanks!

• 109 BILLY DUGGINS // Sep 28, 2010 at 8:52 pm

  hey mike,
  It’s been a while but im back. I have been having some difficulty with mottling on several diff. colors, silvers,golds and some metallic blues.(8n7 was my latest victim) do you have any ideas? Obviously it has been rather warm here in virginia so i cant always keep the booth temp down low. whenever i mentiion this to my reps i hear”did you ck youre viscosity”,and i know youre postion on that. well lets see what you have to sillythanx billy

• 110 BILLY DUGGINS // Sep 28, 2010 at 8:53 pm

  *oops, say *
  thanx again mike BILLY

• 111 mike // Sep 28, 2010 at 9:12 pm

  Billy whats up, thanks for the question. I love those reps hey. What they need to learn is that we are spraying all day and we might just know a little more then they do. Anyways, that’s not a cocky comment that’s just the way it is. Try hitting one control coat and letting it dry for one minute, then hit another control coat moving the gun a little further away from the panel. That should solve the issue. Some colors need that extra control coat to lay out evenly.

  Tell your paint rep to get you some extra slow water for those hot days and see what he says. Bloody paint reps anyway. LOL. Now I am going to get it from all the paint reps out there. Stay tuned for the battle Billy.

  Let me know how you make out please,

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 112 tom // Sep 30, 2010 at 6:34 pm

  Is anyone else having problems with ppg coverage on their environmental line. It seems like the last two weeks the coverage has been awful especially their silvers and red. I sprayed JV today a ford color and it took 12 coats and that was with the right sealer underneath. I have been a ppg global fan for a while but now with their waterborne system Im ready to switch.

• 113 mike // Sep 30, 2010 at 9:24 pm

  Hey Tom, some colors are low hiders. You will get to know the bad one’s really quickly. All the other paint companies have low hiding colors so it’s not just PPG that has this issue. If you switch to say Sikkens then you will run into the same problem as you are having now. It might not be the same color but you will soon find out that those low hiding colors are out there, “even with the right shade of sealer”.

  Other paint companies have two stage colors that are sprayed like three stages with a ground coat required before the actual color is applied. Sikkens has these colors as do RM and Glasurit. So it’s not just PPG that has these low hiders.

  I suggest spraying on one coat for a ground and then go ahead and spray two or three coats of the actual color and that way you are not putting 12 coats of base on the vehicle. This will correct your problem. I use this method and it works great. Hope this helps you out Tom. If you need any more assistance please feel free to ask me and I will get you the answers you are looking for.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 114 adam // Oct 1, 2010 at 12:05 pm

  we have been haveing trouble with the ppg clear darkening colors any advice

• 115 adam // Oct 1, 2010 at 1:07 pm

  in addition to my first question its mostly with metalics (silvers and golds)thanks for any input

• 116 Ray // Oct 5, 2010 at 9:47 pm

  Mike,

  Just a note to let you know that Anest Iwata has a new tip that works phenomenal for the EC 700 and 750 clear coats. This new tip is available on the Super Nova. It is the Hybrid tip and what it does is atomizes the clear like a conventional spray gun but at the 25 PSI inlet pressure the aircap is less than 10 PSI so it can meet the US laws regarding spray equipment with no issues. The gun sprays very fast and the best set up in my opinion is the 1.41 set up if you paint with a fast speed. ASET is just releasing the guns now and they are the same price as the Super Nova.

• 117 mike // Oct 5, 2010 at 11:12 pm

  Hey Adam, that’s weird that only a few mills of clear coat will darken the colors. I could see if you were putting the clear on with 5-10 coats, then I could see with that many mills that it would affect the color. But with only a few mills it shouldn’t darken the color at all. I will look into that for you Adam and get back to you with an answer very soon.

  Thanks for the comment,

  ~Mike.

• 118 mike // Oct 5, 2010 at 11:29 pm

  Ray, awesome info to pass along to us. Thanks so much for your comment. I know some people are struggling with the application process of the new EC 700 EC 750. I myself switched to the Iwata W-400 and found much better results than I had with the Sata Jet RP 3000. Those of us who were using Deltron, DC 3000 DC 4000 which is mixed 4:1 had less issues then those of us who were using the Global clears which were 3:1:1. I was using D8150 and D894 and had a rough transition with the EC700 clear coat.

  It’s very cool that you pointed out that the Super Nova is working fantastic with the 1.41 mm tip. I have been on E-Bay trying to find a great price on that gun. I used the gun at the training center while getting re-certified and liked the way the gun sprayed the EC700 clear. So great information you provided us here Ray.

  If you have a link to ASET’s web site I want to add the link to my Blog so other painters can go and buy a gun. Can you please get back to me with a link to their site as we all could use this new technology.

  Thanks Ray,

  ~Mike.

• 119 adam // Oct 6, 2010 at 11:24 am

  thanks so much mike i’m not sure if it’s the way he’s been putting it on or what, the color matches fine but once cleared and finished it tends to darken ‘but only the light metalics . is it possible we got an old batch i’m still fairly new as a shop manager to the auto body trade so and input is extremely appreciated thanks so much

• 120 adam // Oct 6, 2010 at 11:28 am

  p.s. mike ,in this blog i have found a lot of usfull infomation, thanks for taking the time to write it it muchly appeciated

• 121 mike // Oct 9, 2010 at 10:52 pm

  Hey Adam, yeah it is possible that you got a bad batch or an older batch. I have noticed some gallons are a little yellower than others. This usually will not affect colors as you are only putting on a few mills. Check with your supplier as to how long they have had the clear or ask him/them if they have any answers for you.

  If you have any more questions feel free to ask them here.

  Thanks Adam,

  ~Mike

• 122 adam // Oct 15, 2010 at 10:59 am

  awesome mike thanks alot i will be speaking with him todoay

• 123 Ray // Oct 17, 2010 at 10:47 am

  Mike,

  Sorry so long to get back to you, the websites are anestiwata.com and asetusa.com the Anest Iwata site should have the technical information showing now. The Hybrid guns have been sold in Canada through distribution and they have not been delivered to the US much. PPG trainers and representatives should have information on the results that we have had.

  Thanks Ray

• 124 Todd // Nov 7, 2010 at 7:15 pm

  Hey mike great thread have you ran in to anyone using the bran new standox standoblue or permahyde hi tec

• 125 Todd G // Nov 7, 2010 at 7:26 pm

  Hi Mike, Great blog just curios if you know anthing about the brand new standox standoblue or spies hecker permahyde hi tec sounds like some pretty neat technologie

• 126 mike // Nov 7, 2010 at 9:44 pm

  Hello Todd, I have not yet sprayed Standox or Spies Hecker. I do know that Standox used to be great paint, not sure what their water bourne line will be like. I would like to try it that’s for sure. Not much of a Spies fan though.

  If anyone is using either line, please leave your comment and tell us what you like or dislike about either product line.

  Thanks for the comment Todd. Hopefully someone using either paint line will leave us some feedback.

  ~Mike.

• 127 Rob Colbert // Nov 17, 2010 at 12:48 pm

  I love all this talk, I have tried PPG, DUPONT, SPIES, SIKKENS and Sherwin William’s AWX is BY FAR THE BEST. The Primer is Air Dry 15 Minutes I’m Sanding. The Clear Air bake NO BAKE In BOOTH. Gas and Electric hates Me. I’ve Cut Usage 58% and Have Not Had 1 Color Issue in 90 Days Plus! Sherwin Has No Fears FAST AND SIMPLE AND LESS MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!

• 128 mike // Nov 18, 2010 at 10:42 pm

  Hello Rob, glad you like your S.W. PPG has primer that dries and is sanded in less then 5 min with no bake. But that’s here nor there!

  Glad to hear you are cutting costs from gas and electric. It all adds up at the end of the year.

  Thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment on the Blog.

  ~Mike.

• 129 Kevin // Dec 3, 2010 at 12:38 am

  Mike,

  What primer is this? We have been an ICI NEXA shop for over 10 years, and have never seen any such primer. We have been trying new lines for three months. The SW primer is the best we ever used. The rest of the system is junk. We tried ONYX and the value shade system is a waste of time. We have narrowed our choice to SPIES or AQUABASE. The spies solvent line is far superior to nexa with colormatch and clearcoat gloss. However, the waterbase spies is a bit of an unknown since the release isn’t until next year. The color match with aquabase is very good, and application is a breeze. The new 6359 (not sure on this number) clear has excellent gloss and dries quick. We have two garmat 42 foot booths and spray about 25 cars a day.

• 130 mike // Dec 3, 2010 at 9:06 pm

  Hey Kevin, thanks for the question. The primer is UV primer and the part number is D8080. UV Cured Primer Surfacer is a unique, UV cured undercoat that is recommended for small spot repairs. It is the first of it’s kind in the world. D8080 is easy to apply, easy to sand and supplied in an aerosol can. The UV Primer Surfacer only requires a 2 minute cure with a PPG approved UV lamp, before sanding.

  This primer like it states is for small repaired ares the size of a sheet of paper 9×11. This product comes in the Global line and the Deltron line as well.

  Nexa Aquabase is great paint but I believe Envirobase HP is a little better. I know reps will tell you they are virtually the same but I have found the Envirobase HP better. I also like PPG clear coats better then I like Nexa’s clears.

  Sounds to me like you have a high production facillity. Two cars fit in one booth I take it!

  Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment Kevin. Feel free to let us all know how things are going for you in terms of your paint product you choose to go with.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 131 Scott // Dec 8, 2010 at 12:10 am

  Nice PPG site with great insite! But those that do not know, PPG did not invent Water Born paint. I use Onyx everyday and and have tried SW, Envirobase .. Onyx smokes them both in colormatch and speed!

• 132 Kevin // Dec 8, 2010 at 12:26 am

  Thanks for the response Mike. We do fit two cars in the booths along with bumpers hoods, doors, etc. Whatever it takes to get the job done. We paint all our parts off the cars.

  We have decided to stick with PPG. They have always represented us well and stand by their product. Not to mention the Nexa Aquabase we found to be a superior paint compared to all that we have tried. Talked a little about the Evirobase, but decided to go with Nexa because the jobber says he gets a couple extra points for it, and our deal was cutting pretty deep into his pocket. The guys are pretty excited, mostly because it is easy to spray and blend without all the toxic fumes. We were able to get 27 to 28 cars on some days with it so all should go well.

  Thanks again,

  Kevin

• 133 richard williams // Dec 27, 2010 at 1:13 am

  I had my car painted after a repair with water based pint from PPG the panel painted was a shade darker than the rest of the car. Then I noticed when the sunlight got on it there was virtually no metallic pigment in it. The guy showwed me the paint swatches he had for my car none of them matched. Also the paint seems to be dull on that panel. Still waithig to take the car back for repaint but a little worried it will never be the same.
  Rich

• 134 Brendan // Dec 29, 2010 at 9:57 pm

  We just switched from Nexa to DuPont Cromax Pro. DuPont is hands down a better and faster product to work with. Better coverage and faster application. I have sprayed alot of
  PPG solvent and found that DBU was great 20 years ago and they havent come out with a good line since. DBC was good but the chips they had we sprayed in Global so they we use less. Global has terrible coverage and if you didnt have the right color it wouldnt blend. I was not impressed with Nexa water as we had to do alot of sprayouts. DuPont has better color tools and they have good chips now that are working well. PPG will at least buy you something for your loyalty like a spray gun or something. The one thing that PPG does is brain wash painters real well into thinking their products are good. I am from New York and they pay managers off and give the painters free paint guns to keep them loyal. Good luck PPG. There’s an as? for every seat.

• 135 Wayne // Jan 1, 2011 at 11:36 am

  The shop that I work for switched to envirobase water from sw solvent in nov. after two months of spraying ppg my work has been a hell of alot eaiser.I have been painting for over 30 years and sprayed every line of paint out there and for ease of use and color match envirobase is absolutely one of the best.I have not done a sprayout card since the switch because what you see with the ppg cards is what you get,can’t make any money painting cards we make money painting cars! Does anyone want to buy the hundreds of sprayouts I did with SW?

• 136 rod // Jan 1, 2011 at 12:16 pm

  Ive been using onyx paint for 10 months.Its awful in ever way.Ive also shot sherwin williams with the same result.I have 20 years exp. in collision shops and custom.My conclusion after using waterborne myself and info shared by other painters is all waterborne paint is terrible and is not condusive to bodyshops.In a typical bodyshop you have to paint 4-5 cars a day min. to make money(Im on commision).This paint needs so much time to:tint to match(every color needs tinting,nowhere close to matching on its own)dry (you need expensive equip.to dry paint),d nibbing(if you find a mistake in the prep and youve already put paint on it you have to start over for waterborne does not feather edge).Ive went to training,had 3 onyx experts work with me,tried everything there is to try to make it work effeciently.It does not.If you have all the time in the world and make mad money off of one job then this could be ok.But if you work in the real world of autobody this crap will ruin you monetarily and sometimes emotionally(anger,frustration)I hate to go to work everyday.Hate isnt strong enough of a word.Ive been painting for 2o years and have a good rep of being a good painter,Its all I know.I dont know what Im gonna do for work.Im 41 now and its too late to start over with a huge mortgage and everything else.Thank God I dont have kids to worry about.

• 137 mike // Jan 1, 2011 at 4:14 pm

  Hello Richard, it sounds to me like the shop you had you car painted at should have blended out the adjacent panels to achieve a proper color match. Some colors you can butt match and other colors are just no good for butt matching. Also it sounds to me like the clear coat dyed off for some reason and that is why the panel is “dull” looking.

  I would recommend taking the vehicle back to the shop as It needs to be blended out to achieve the proper color match. There should be no charge for that redo.

  Please contact me if you have any further questions regarding your vehicle. I replied to your comment a week ago when you posted it but it seems as though something went wrong and my reply did not show up. So very sorry for the delay in replying to your concern.

  ~Mike.

• 138 mike // Jan 1, 2011 at 4:40 pm

  Hello Brendan, thanks for taking the time and leaving a comment on the Blog. In response to your comment, “The one thing that PPG does is brain wash painters real well into thinking their products are good”. PPG has never tryed to brainwash me or any of the other users here in Alberta, what they have done is prove what they say!

  I have never been big on the Nexa product, many say it’s the same as PPG Envirobase HP but I know from using both products it’s not! Anyway, that’s why I support the PPG Envirobase HP water.

  I feel that PPG has great color tools which are easy to use and work well. I feel that all the high end paint companies have good color tools, proper training from them is essentail to achive the desired result.

  Just to clear the air from my side of the street, PPG has never tried to buy me off, or tried to buy off any of the managers or owners off at the shops I have work at. I do know that other paint companies here in Alberta have made huge deals to use their product, but I wont say which ones they are.

  Thanks for your comment Brendan,

  ~Mike

• 139 mike // Jan 1, 2011 at 4:52 pm

  Hello Wayne, very glad to hear you are having success with PPG Envirobase HP. It’s fast, the colors are awesome and it will and can make you and your shop money.

  “I have been painting for over 30 years and sprayed every line of paint out there and for ease of use and color match Envirobase is absolutely one of the best”. I totally agree with you on that statement Wayne, I am coming up to 20 years in the collision refinishing industry and I must admit I was a little sceptical with the water at first, but once I had sprayed it for a few weeks, all the scepticism went right out the window. Now I would never go back to solvent, I love water that much!

  Thanks very much for your comment Wayne, please touch base with us here and keep us informed as to how you are doing.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike

• 140 mike // Jan 1, 2011 at 9:38 pm

  Hey Rod, man I feel your pain coming through my computer screen and that’s NO JOKE. I know how frustrating it can be sometimes but everyday, all day long is the definition of “anger and frustration”. All I can say is water is good, I know what I can do with PPG Envirobase HP. I spray 5 cars a day with PPG water with no problems.

  “My conclusion after using waterborne myself and info shared by other painters is all waterborne paint is terrible and is not conducive to body shops” I humbly have to disagree with this statement Rod.

  Here is the deal for me, water uses heat and air movement to dry, we all know that. So as for expensive equipment, all you need to do is use a tree stand or two and get your booth spray temperature at 80 degrees Celsius or so depending on the humidity levels. I seal my primed areas and new OEM panels. Once the sealer is dry, I apply one medium wet coat of Envirobase HP. The first coat usually takes 5 minutes to dry, then a second coat is applied and another 5 minutes goes by. Then a control coat and another 5 minutes is up. Then ready to clear coat. So we are now at (30) thirty minutes in the booth as we have already wiped the panels with wax and grease remover and blown and tacked the panel/panels. Then clear is applied in ten minutes and you are baking. Thirty minute bake and in goes the next vehicle. So an hour and ten minutes per vehicle depending on the size of the job, could be a little less and it could be a little more for bigger jobs. That translates into seven jobs per day out of the booth per day using PPG Envirobase HP. No fancy booths and major equipment needed. Just heat and air!

  Are you in a dealership or do you work for an independent body shop? What kinds of vehicles are you painting on a regular basis? I would strongly suggest you ask your boss to have a PPG representative come in and do a demo at your shop, I know you will like the product and I know for sure from personal use that you will spray 5-7 vehicles a day with no problems.

  Please respond to my follow up comment and let me know where you live, I might be able to help you find a jobber that can help you and your shop out. I sincerely feel your pain and I sure hope that your shop will hear your concerns and try and help you. I know what it feels like to have to pay a mortgage, I myself have two kids and a wife. Car payments, insurance payments and so on. For me it would be too hard to leave the trade and try and make as much money as I do now doing something else.

  I sure hope for you that you can do a PPG demo and your shop will switch you over, you and your shop will make money!

  Thanks so much for your comment and I hope you have a very happy new year.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 141 Aaron // Feb 1, 2011 at 1:43 am

  I’ve been in the paint industry for over 10 years. I have been interested in waterbournes for a while now but my paint rep steered me away from them in fact no shops in my area are using them. I have since thought about changing careers and becoming an insurance adjuster but is there a chance I could make money by marketing waterbourne paints in my area and if so can you send me some info on what reps I should talk to about getting involved. I would love to see it take off because its a new industry that will really make a difference and I am friends with most of the local shop owners. I’m sure with the right direction I can convince them to switch. Thanks

• 142 Tom Dooly // Feb 4, 2011 at 3:51 pm

  If anyone is thinking about changing to water, you owe it to yourselves to look at Cromax Pro.

  ONE COAT COVERAGE!! NO FLASH TIME! SPRAY UNTIL IT IS COVERED! SUPERIOR COLOR MATCH!
  Nuff Said.

• 143 mike // Feb 6, 2011 at 4:38 pm

  Hey Tom, one coat coverage scares me, back to back coats of base causes problems such as clear peeling. As for color match, every paint company has issues with certain colors, we all know that. What you might not know is DuPont base coat is difficult to tint as the pigments are very concentrated. PPG Envirobase is very easy to tint with limited headaches.

  Don’t get me wrong here, DuPont makes some good products, just not good enough for me to use in MY SHOP.

  So thanks for the comment,

  ~Mike

• 144 Gary Brooks // Feb 8, 2011 at 8:51 pm

  I would Like Some More INfo On Ur WebSite. I thought It Was Very Interstried. .

• 145 Dave // Feb 18, 2011 at 12:08 am

  Great info here Mike!

  Our painter has recently started using waterborne from Sikkens and he loves it. It’s faster, easier to clean.
  A couple of the local dealerships have already made the change but there seems to be quite a bit of resistance from the old timers.

• 146 mike // Feb 18, 2011 at 12:37 am

  Hello Dave, thanks. I saw the old times resist but come around after they had a chance to use the water borne base coat. When I was a paint rep for a PPG jobber, I found that the younger painters were more open to the change over. The older painters were stuck in their ways and absolutely did not want to change systems. Some left the trade all together. I reminded them that it was mandatory by the Canadian Government and had to be done.

  I found the water borne base coat matched better to OEM than did solvent. I also found it to be a little slower than solvent but laid down better and is easier to control metallic’s with the drop coat.

  So sounds like you are doing well and your shop is happy switching to water.

  Thanks very much for your comment,

  ~Mike.

• 147 David // Mar 12, 2011 at 12:25 am

  Mike,
  Where do I begin…In the begining of this blog you had a few haters. Maybe they were not even haters, rather folks that had done their home work that showed some weakness of the EHP product. Now, before you get defensive with your reply back I just want you to know that I’m not going to bad mouth EHP all together. Atleast not yet. I’ve had EHP in my shop for six months now and so far I’m not impressed. I do believe that there is some good about the product but the bad far out weighs the good. First of all it models like crazy! (Btw, we have had PPG reps in the shop multiple time as well as our jobber reps) The response… “well that’s just part of it” Not acceptable! Next, the time it takes from mix to spray. 30 minutes IF you nailed the spray out! If you didn’t another 20-25 min. Third, the coverage. Medium, wet and a control?? More like wet,wet,wet,wet ect… and then a control. The cost is high. Very high. Before EHP my cost to sale % was 5-6% and now I have trippled that. Let me remind you again I have relied on the support of PPG reps.
  Mike, Im sure you’re a phenomenal painter but you have to admit that the way it looks on this blog, you must have Envirobase HP sheets on your bed and PPG pajamas on before getting tuck in at night. I am dying to have someone show me that I’m wrong about this product if for no other reason than to change paint lines is a pain in the butt! I have to agree with Rod at this point.. Maybe water not cracked up to be what everyone thinks it is. Sure it’s been applied for the past 25 years but that’s not apples to apples. New assembly and collision repair are worlds apart. Bottom line is that there are shops (not just mine) that are experiencing real life problems with this product AND other water products and folks life your self along with the manufacture and jobbers want to place any and ALL blame on application, the painter, the booth, Allah etc.. but never once want to admit that JUST maybe water bases are not quite refined (hard to believe considering 90 Line has been out nearly 20 years and Aquabase before it..). Now, it is possible that my expectations are to high and I should just lower my standards as to what kind of finish product I wish to deliver to my customers…. In that case EHP fits the bill “good enough”.

  sorry about making fun of your pajamas and sheets..
  David-

• 148 mike // Mar 12, 2011 at 12:57 am

  Hi David, I sincerely feel your pain when it comes to being frustrated and I don’t believe for a second you want to put out a sub-standard product for your customers. If your reps are telling you ““well that’s just part of it” that’s a complete load of crap as far as I’m concerned!

  We both know putting out the highest quality looking product is the name of the game and we will settle for nothing less then beautiful when it comes to high quality finishes.

  I would be honored to come to your shop and give an outsiders point of view on what is going wrong.

  A few questions for you.

  1. What kind of booth are you spraying in

  2. What type of guns are you using to apply the product and what air pressure do you apply the control coat.

  3. How humid is it in the area you live in?

  4. What temperature is it in the booth when you spray?

  5. Are you using the proper shade of sealer before applying your base coat?

  “Bottom line is that there are shops (not just mine) that are experiencing real life problems with this product AND other water products and folks life your self along with the manufacture and jobbers want to place any and ALL blame on application, the painter, the booth, Allah etc..”

  I agree that there are shops that are having problems with all water products, but please do not place me in the class of people who want to blame on the painter, application, booth etc. I would like to offer my assistance to you to help you succeed with this product.

  Lets figure this out so you do not have to switch products David.

  Thanks so much for your comment,

  ~Mike.

• 149 David // Mar 12, 2011 at 9:47 am

  2010 Accudraft Titan booth (should have bought the Garmat… damn it!) I purchased the Titan b/c they claimed that it was water ready and would not need any quads or fans. It’s a good booth but does not have the air speed at the belt they claimed it would. We do use hand dryers when the water purge cycle does not quite do the job. Booth spray temp stays at 80.

  Guns are RP 3000 for clear w/ 700 and 750 @29-30 inlet. We just started using 8152 recently though.
  Iwata LPH 400 LV gold cap for the water @29-30 and 14-20 on control coat depending on conditions.
  Lastly, the shop is in North east Texas
  We are you?

• 150 David // Mar 12, 2011 at 11:49 am

  message sent on fb.

• 151 mike // Mar 12, 2011 at 12:11 pm

  Ok sounds like a good booth David. Garmat are great booths as well but if I bought a booth it would be Junair. Need those Quads in every booth!!

  Ok here is what I recommend you try.

  1. Turn booth spray temp to 75

  2. Guns seem great but control coat air pressure is too high for that brand of gun. I spray at 25 psi for my first two or three and turn down the air pressure to 15-18 psi for the control coat. It lays the control coat down evenly with no mottling. The higher the air pressure on the control coat the more chances of mottling or a blotchy look. Get him to try spraying control coat at 17 psi and see what that does. I feel this will eliminate that problem you are having David.

  The clear guns are good as well but I switched to an Iwata w-400 1.3mm for my EC700 EC750 and it lays that specific clear down way nicer than the RP3000 Sata does. Just my preference David. A 1.3 mm tip is the way to go with that clear coat for sure.

  I am in Calgary, Alberta Canada.

  Hopefully together we can get rid of these issues and get onto making vehicles look their very best.

  Thanks for the reply David, lets try my recommendations out and go from there.

  Cheers,

  ~Mike.

• 152 aleks // Mar 16, 2011 at 10:26 pm

  have used basf for almost 10 years, nothing except german cars matched. PPG 99% of the time the prime formula is the correct one.
  The painter is so happy it dries fast he stopped using trees and just uses a blower for smaller jobs.

  I WILL NEVER EVER EVER GO BACK TO BASF!

• 153 aleks // Mar 16, 2011 at 10:40 pm

  Some free advice from a guy who has a crappy 15 year old semi down draft booth. Don’t listen to the reps or jobber go for multiple light coats over 2 heavy coats. Heavy coats take longer to dry and will cause mottled look. Just spray with a higher pressure and mist it on multiple coats. Blow drying with your paint gun between coats it will help. You won’t need a control coat at that point. If you are having scratch marks showing through use t490 as a sealer.

  Remember high pressure multiple light coats!

  Not recommended but you can use rubbing alcohol in the water mix up to 25-40% to increase dry time.

  AGAIN NO AMOUNT OF MONEY WOULD MAKE MY COMPANY USE BASF over PPG.
  Better technical support , better colour matching better paint coverage!

• 154 Michael Laverty // Mar 22, 2011 at 10:50 pm

  Dear Mike… I started working in the autobody /auto paint /restoration business in 1975 , I’ve been saying since the late 70s there has to be more capital placed on R&D because of the even then Obvious VOCs and as you know corporate America puts there bottom line ahead of all else period. Change only happens when they are forced to do so and it is the customer who pay’s the freight for all expenses and profit loss period . imagine all that from a guy who didn’t go to autobody school ?

• 155 mike // Mar 22, 2011 at 11:10 pm

  No kidding hey Michael, the cost went up for sure as a result of “New Technology”. Both the user and the customer has to pay for this. I also lobbied that water borne is slower despite the insurance companies doing “Tests” proving it was the same speed therefore not increasing refinish times as a result.

  Most water systems have one thinner to reduce their product that is only one speed. When we used solvent there were three types of thinner, Slow, Medium and Fast. I wonder who did these studies and how many years they have been in the trade??? I sure hope the insurance companies review their findings and increase refinish times as a result of their new findings.

  Thanks so much for your time and your comment,

  ~Mike

• 156 Sam // Mar 31, 2011 at 5:39 am

  Hey Mike,

  Been out of the bizz for over a decade, but are thinking about getting back in via painting bikes (mainly custom harleys), maybe the occasional hot rod and helmets. Keen to try PPG waterbourne range in my small set up and wondered if this gun can do the job…. I would eventually move to a better gun once work gets past the hobby and relearn stage….

  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IWATA-Air-Gunsa-HVLP-SPRAY-PAINT-GUN-1-3mm-Waterborne-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c5b2c300bQQitemZ190508183563QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools#ht_3408wt_1167

  Sorry for large link – says its waterbounre in several places, although its not from the w400 range. Have a sata for clear so thats sorted.

  Any help appreciated

• 157 mike // Mar 31, 2011 at 9:22 pm

  Hey Sam, that gun should be fine to spray PPG Envirobase HP. If you are doing heavy metal flake or something along those lines, try a bigger tip size but for normal sized metallics, that gun will be good.

  Iwata is recommended to spray PPG Envirobase HP by PPG. 22 psi for the first two or three coats until properly covered, and then 14-17 psi for the control coat which is sprayed as a drop coat to orientate metallics. If you need application information just send me another comment and I will help you out.

  Thanks Sam,

  ~Mike.

• 158 Sam // Apr 3, 2011 at 3:24 am

  Thanks so much Mike. Was curious about the metal flake for the old school guys too, so thanks for clearing that up!

  Sam

• 159 mike // Apr 3, 2011 at 10:25 am

  No worries Sam, glad I could help you out. Feel free to come and visit here anytime.

  Cheers,

  ~Mike.

• 160 GUY BINA // Apr 3, 2011 at 12:33 pm

  MIKE BEEN USING NEXA FOR OVER A YEAR NOW LOVE IT JUST ONE PROBLEM. CLEAR DELAMANATION, MOSTLY ON SOLID COLOR CARS. BLACK BEING THE WORST. ANY ADVICE ANYONE ELSE HAVING THIS PROBLEM. THANKS WYOMING PROUD, GUY BINA

• 161 mike // Apr 3, 2011 at 1:41 pm

  Hey Guy, seen it and hear it is happening also. I heard of the problem at a shop in Airdrie, Alberta. They had several come backs as a result of this delamination issue. I will find out the answer for you and give you feedback on how to correct it very soon.

  Thanks for the question Guy,

  ~Mike.

• 162 shane ferguson // Apr 4, 2011 at 9:00 pm

  hey guy , i don’t know alot about nexa but it sounds like you might be trapping some solvents. A solid color tends to have more solids than a mettalic. Black will have the most solid content than any other color. Try waiting a little bit longer before you clear. Like i said dont know much about nexa, just an idea. what do you think mike

• 163 mike // Apr 4, 2011 at 9:16 pm

  Hey Shane, in regards to Guy’s issue I think that’s a great idea. Also Guy, you can run a quick 3-4 minute bake on the base before you clear. I asked my buddy today who is a PPG technical representative what he thinks. He suggested adding hardener to the base coat to make sure proper interlocking is achieved. I also need to know which clear coat you are using Guy?

  I am not sure what the Nexa waterborne base coat hardener number is so please ask your local rep and he or she will let you know what the number is and how much to add to your base coat.

  What Shane says makes perfect sense as black is the most pigmented color if I am not mistaken. Let it dry longer with good heat and air movement. I would go five minutes longer than what you are drying other colors you are having no issues with.

  Thanks for your comment Shane and hopefully this will help you out Guy.

  Cheers,

  ~Mike.

• 164 shane ferguson // Apr 4, 2011 at 9:38 pm

  you r welcome mike. adding a hardner to the base is a good idea to the iso’s from the base will lock in with the clear to make a more durable finish. hey mike have you ever sprayed any debeers wb. The paint store i work for just started to carry it. im new to the water base systems. im in mississippi the whole low voc thing is kinda new to us down south we are always behind the restof the world.

• 165 mike // Apr 4, 2011 at 10:34 pm

  Hello again Shane, I have never sprayed Debeers water but it is probably good. They all work Shane just some work better then others and some are easier to use and so on. I feel PPG does an excellent job with their color tools which makes it easier on painters and their day to day duties.

  Some good fishing in Mississippi I hear, that’s my other passion. I would love to come down and visit your state, I hear it is nice there. Anyways, water borne base coat is a different animal but once you master it you will love it and never want to go back to solvent.

  Thanks so much for helping me out with Guy’s reply. I appreciate all the help I can get.

  Cheers,

  ~Mike

• 166 shane ferguson // Apr 4, 2011 at 10:53 pm

  no problem mike i will keep checking in with the blog wish i had more time to go fishing. i work to dang much. i work for a small jobber and cover three states so it keeps me busy thanks for the info i will be spraying some debeers this week.
  im kinda excited about grtting to play with some water.
  thanks shane

• 167 mike // Apr 4, 2011 at 11:05 pm

  Please do Shane, sounds like you are crazy busy. Good luck with the water and let me know how you like it Shane.

  Cheers,

  ~Mike

• 168 GUY BINA // Apr 7, 2011 at 7:54 pm

  hey, mike and shane thanks for the info. But mike i asked u a year ago about wht is the number t588 and you said you dont recomend anything in the base coat . I have also had reds and a few whites come back. my rep does not recomend hardner in the base also . I use 643 clear on all of the jobs with 2020 flex in it.

• 169 mike // Apr 7, 2011 at 11:53 pm

  Hello again Guy, I was talking to my buddy again tonight about your issue and here is what we concluded. Most painters tend to apply solid colors more heavily than we do metallic colors. Try applying your solid colors with less build and maybe try three light coats instead of two heavier coats.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 170 tim // May 28, 2011 at 5:15 pm

  Hello Mike, currently spraying SW AWX at shop and considering switching to PPG or Dupont. Coverage for painters is a big issue with SW. Some silvers taking up to 6-7 coats before covering. Spray outs costing the shop a fortune. Could you give some pro’s and con’s of both PPG and Dupont.
  thank you!!!

• 171 classic body worx // Jun 29, 2011 at 11:18 am

  ppg is best Spray

• 172 matthew // Jul 21, 2011 at 10:23 am

  is w.b piant best for spot repairs ?

• 173 mike // Jul 21, 2011 at 11:50 pm

  Hello Matthew, I would say yes to that question. It requires a little getting used to but spot repairs will match well and blend out wickedly.

  You will like it I am quite sure of that.

  Thanks for the question,

  ~Mike.

• 174 Darren // Aug 22, 2011 at 2:16 pm

  Hey Mike, do you have a website?

• 175 mike // Aug 22, 2011 at 7:15 pm

  Hello Darren, this is my website. Do you need some information ?

• 176 Darren // Aug 23, 2011 at 2:22 pm

  Hi Mike, would it be possible to have your email?
  I would like to communicate to you via mail, I have some questions about PPG in your country as well as the different spray guns that you have used in your years as a spray painter.

• 177 mike // Aug 24, 2011 at 11:17 am

  Hey Darren, my email address is bowriverblog@gmail.com Feel free to email anytime.

  Cheers,

  ~Mike

• 178 Darren // Aug 24, 2011 at 1:43 pm

  Hi Mike, thanks for the mail address.
  I may have the answer to the delamination problem that some of the guy’s are having.
  First reduce the Envirobase with 10% T494,
  The first coat should be a medium one – but not to wet – flash with a blower for 5 minutes (depending on your spray booth tempreture), apply the second coat the same as the first then flash for 15 minutes before appling the clear coat, a control coat is not needed for solid base colours.
  The clear coat MUST not be a MS clear, only HS clear must be used – MS clear coat contains to much solvent which causes inter coat adhession failure between the base and the clear coat (you will find that the delamination starts around the stone chips).
  Delamination will also occur if the clear coat is below a DFT of 30 microns.
  Reduce the metallics and pearls 20% with T494, this gives the best results accross the board even with poor opacity colours.
  Hope this helps.

• 179 mike // Aug 25, 2011 at 12:52 pm

  Excellent information Darren, thanks very much for taking the time and sharing your experience with us here.

  Cheers,

  ~Mike

• 180 roger comer // Sep 5, 2011 at 9:21 pm

  mike,
  after 20 yrs of ppg solvent borne paint, shop owners wanted to go martin senour water as they own 2 napa stores. problems-clear coats dull down and painters complain of too hard to buff. any suggests. thanks

• 181 mike // Sep 5, 2011 at 9:35 pm

  Hey Roger, I have not used any Martin Senour paint so I do not have any suggestions for you. My only suggestion is to tell them to go back to the good stuff (PPG) and then there will be no issues.

  Thanks for the comment,

  ~Mike

• 182 roger // Sep 6, 2011 at 6:48 pm

  mike,
  thanks. we are in area where we have humidity above 50% a lot of times and booths have no heat or blowers-just the air blower trees and the fan of the booth. what is your take on what to do to get paint to dry from the moisture? i have seen info on the roof mounted blowers/nozzles and heat for the booth. both booths are cross draft. i, personally, just purchased a complete body shop with a semi down draft booth in it that was repossessed from a bank and am going to go waterborne in it if i can get the humidity item figured out. it does sound like ppg has their waterborne pretty well under contol, but shops still have concerns on the moisture aspect af the paint drying. any help would be appreciated both for myself and the painters above.

• 183 mike // Sep 6, 2011 at 7:25 pm

  Hello Roger, from all the classes and personal use of waterborne products, heat is a MUST for climates that have high humidity. What will dry the base coat properly and thoroughly is heat and air combined. If you have lots of air movement and no heat it will take forever to dry the base coat in high humidity climates.

  Cross flow booth’s actually work the best for drying waterborne base coats. The air is moving down the side of the vehicle which is ideal for drying. Also, some shops here add ceiling fans to their booths for that added air movement.

  So the answer to your question is heat plus air will dry your base coats properly. Heat is a must for you!

  If you have any further questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

  Cheers,

  ~Mike.

• 184 ddub // Sep 22, 2011 at 8:41 am

  Mike,
  Get your facts straight.

  There is no true waterborne that has no solvent. Some are added to the pigment, some come packaged in the pigment.

  There is typically 10% solvent in any “waterborne” basecoat.

  Also remember that the VOC rules do not state that the basecoat need to be waterborne. It states that it must meet the stated VOC rules.

  So to state that Glasurit and Onyx are not true waterborne product but to state that Envirobase is a true waterborne and act like it is superior due to that reason is at best foolhardy.

  Your quote. “And will not freeze says it’s not a true water product. ”

  There has also been waterborne singlestages for a while, prior to your statement that there is not any. But they are not ready for prime time usage in the automobile world. They do spray nice, dry fast, but do not have the gloss that we need YET.

• 185 Andre // Oct 7, 2011 at 5:08 pm

  Hi Mike
  I am currently a PPG enviro base shop and I have found that it is the best product I’ve ever used being a previous Spies Hecker water borne user. I find the colours and underbody engine bay system to be excellent. Currently we’ve been approached by Glasurit and I do not know enough about the product to make the change, can you offer any advice about Glasurit and their colours and how would this product compare to PPG. We are considering Glasurit due to the product being more cost effective, can you please offer me an un-biased opinion.
  Kind regards
  Andre

• 186 mike // Oct 7, 2011 at 6:22 pm

  Hey ddub, yes you are correct. Waterborne basecoat does have solvent in it. 10% would be accurate. Glasurit converts their basecoat with a converter and then you spray. It is a VOC compliant system as far as VOCs go. I have used the product myself and in my opinion, it’s not as good as say PPG or Sikkens is.

  Many shops use Onyx and Glasurit and have good success with it. For me it does not compare with PPG Envirobase HP. Everybody has their own preference right !!!! I prefer PPG.

  I was not aware their was a single stage water product available to spray at this time. I see by your comment that they have this technology but it not ready to go yet. I just learned something. Thanks.

  Anyways, appreciate the comment and the info.

  ~Mike.

• 187 STEVE // Nov 8, 2011 at 3:03 pm

  HEY IS IT TRUE PPG DBC WILL BE DISCONTINUED IN PENNSYLVANIA AREA

• 188 mike // Nov 12, 2011 at 10:10 pm

  Hello Steve, not too sure about your question. You would have to ask one of your local area rep’s if that is going to happen.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 189 steve // Nov 22, 2011 at 10:28 pm

  Just went to work for as shop spraying envirobase with 750 clear. Im having a heck of a time trying to get ther clear to lay out with my Sata 3000 with 1.4mm . Any suggestions? air pressure?

• 190 mike // Nov 23, 2011 at 12:54 am

  Hey Steve, a 1.4 mm tip should be good. I used a Sata Jet 3000 and found that it never laid the clear out the way I liked it. What I did was reduced the clear out 10% and that seemed to work way better then just spraying at a 4-1 reduction. I also sprayed the clear at 29-32 psi with the Sata and the clear seemed to lay down great at that pressure. How open is your fluid tip Steve, try opening the fluid tip even one or two turns and see if that helps.

  My rep kinda freaked out when I added reducer to the clear but once he saw the results he changed his tune really quick. Then a few months later our jobber started telling all their shops to reduce the clear up to 10% to achieve better flow. Also, PPG changed the way they wanted the clear sprayed, instead of back to back they wanted a five minute flash between coats. Just thought I would mention that too you Steve. Please let me know how things work out for you, post a reply once you try out these suggestions please.

  Thanks Steve,

  ~Mike.

  Oh and after a few months using the Sata I switched to a Iwata W-400LV 1.3 mm tip and I found it to be a way better gun for PPG EC700 EC750.

• 191 Kate // Dec 12, 2011 at 11:48 am

  I’ve been doing automotive airbrush for 30 years, so I’ve been through the evolution from laquer to acrylic enamel to base/clear. I haven’t done much airbrush work in the past year or so, and what I did was painted in base.

  I did some test work with my airbrush today using PPG envirobase, and I have to say that while I was initially happy with the way it flowed through the airbrush, after an hour of playing around, I had changed my mind.

  The coverage is terrible. There is simply no other way to characterize it. Consulting with the shop painter, he confirmed that he now uses nearly twice as many passes to achieve coverage and has some of the same flow issues I was seeing.

  I paint everything freehand, so this requires my paint to have very good opacity, or my day will be spent painting and repainting detail work many times over.

  This was the case with the Envirobase – I tried mixing the paint as recommended with thinner, experimented with less thinner, and finally attempted to spray it unthinned at all, and found that the paint simply does not have the opacity to produce the black lines required to do finish detail.

  (These lines are the thickness of a thick pencil line – I do work on small pieces like goal masks)

  Furthermore, after a few minutes, I found the Envirobase would clog, and then break loose, into a watery splat – the viscosity would not remain stable.

  In the past, using PPG base, I could take my colours straight out of the rack and these lines would be intense enough in a single pass, perhaps two.

  In the space of the hour of experimenting I went from planning two jobs for later this week, to phoning my clients to tell them I’ll be sending them back. I’m very disappointed, to say the least.

• 192 Bo // Jan 3, 2012 at 7:07 pm

  Hey Guys,

  Anybody know anything about Sherwin-Williams waterborne? I keep hearing everybody talking about PPG but Ive heard great things about Sherwin and how their waterborne system is taking over in California. I know they are cheaper because they are the only company you go direct through instead of using a jobber, but what do you guys know/think about thier product??

  Thanks
  Bo

• 193 mike // Jan 3, 2012 at 7:57 pm

  Hey Bo, having used the product for 6 months and really trying to make it work, I found the product to be total garbage in my opinion. Their color tools are NOT good and in most cases on newer vehicles, they don’t have color variant chips to look at before you select a color. I also had MAJOR issues with their clear coat, solvent popping like crazy. Die back issues you name it, I had it. I tried lowering the heat in my booth, not using the blowers during the bake cycle, increasing the time on the bake cycle, slowing down the reducer etc etc, and I could not correct the problems.

  I also had problems with color matches, seedy base, the base not laying down correctly and so on. The old saying is “you get what you pay for”.

  What you have heard about Sherwin Williams “great things” needs to be tested out by you personally, trust me on this one. If you spray PPG or Sikkens and then you spray SW, you will NEVER use SW no matter how cheep it is. PPG is the leader in color, no question about it. Once you use PPG you have access to their online color library , there you will find “Specials” that other painters have created, or PPG has created to give you more selections to choose from. These specials also include information on where the vehicle was manufactured helping you narrow it down even more. The SW shop I worked for, I had to contact their rep to gain access to “field formulas” which was a complete waste of my valuable time and those formulas usually never matched anyway, wasting even more time and paint !!!!

  It would be very wise to look at either PPG or Sikkens as a first choie for your paint and SW as your last.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 194 larry // Jan 8, 2012 at 5:57 pm

  Hey Mike I havent herd u talk about the new spies and standox waterborne yet, this stuff is magic, and super fast, also both spies and standox have some really nice new low voc clears now. In my opinion PPG realy needs to come out with a nice looking easy to use glamour clear the sooner the better. with proper conditions and knolege the Dupont products are faster than ppg and definitialy sickens hands down. Just saying

• 195 Cody // Jan 16, 2012 at 7:36 pm

  Hey Mike, I have been painting for 3 years and we are thinking about switching to PPG WB. I have been spraying Standox and Dupont this whole time. I paint 40 to 60 cars a week and this change is up to me. How hard is the transition going to be? I’m very open minded and I pick up on things very,very fast! Any feedback you could give me would be greatly appreciated!

  thanks Cody

• 196 mike // Jan 16, 2012 at 11:02 pm

  Hey Cody, sounds like a super busy collision repair facility. You will LOVE PPG Envirobase HP. You will also love all the great tools PPG has in their system. For one the colors on the variant deck actually match what you mix and spray. Secondly their colors are excellent, if you don’t see a color in the swatches you can go online and see all field formulas in their database of colors. When online, you can see “Specials” for a specific and you can also see the details of that special, Year, make, plant manufactured. As you know, every paint manufacturer has those bad colors and PPG has a few as well. Once you do a few cards and build up a large color library, you will be fine with those bad colors.

  Application of PPG Envirobase HP is very easy and it dries very quickly using tree stand blowers or booth mounted blowers. Two or three medium coats and a drop coat “Control coat” as PPG calls it and your ready to clear. PPG in my opinion has the best clears on the market and they just launched a speed clear to make those small jobs go in and out very quickly with no bake required.

  If you already know your stuff then making the switch for you to PPG will be very simple. I know you will love the product Cody.

  If you need any further information, don’t hesitate to leave another comment here on the Blog.

  Cheers,

  ~Mike

• 197 Ray // Jan 23, 2012 at 1:14 am

  Kate, the airbrusher who had difficulty with some of the enviorbase colors covering. I did look into this and there may be some colors that are transparent but you should be able to get the color coverage that you are looking for with some of the different strenght tints. The air brush artist Shannon, uses mostly all Enviorbase and is having great success with it. She can help you if you will drop her a line at her website. check out theshannongallery.com She does some amazing work. She can also help you with color information.

  Ray

• 198 mike // Jan 23, 2012 at 1:20 am

  Hello Ray, thanks so much for providing a solution to Kate’s issue. Really appreciate you taking the time and trying to help someone else who is struggling.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike

• 199 Bo // Jan 23, 2012 at 11:28 am

  Hey guys, so after my last post my shop owner decided it was time to check out all these systems for ourselves. We brought in PPG, Dupont, Spies Hecker, Sikkens and Glasurit 90 line and tried them all. After some extensive head to head testing we decided to go with the clear solution and the product that gave us the most advantages in the most catagories, Sherwin-Williams. The AWX system is by far the fastest drying, has comparable color match capabilities to PPG (next closest) and has some advantages that none of the other systems could even come close to competing with. We use the HP process which cosists of the P30 primer, which is the only system that had 7 different colors of primer. plus the stuff dries and is ready to sand in 15 minutes! couldnt believe that. the base coat dries faster that PPG and sikkens and is much easier to sand and nib for in booth repairs or dirt spots. (most systems you can not do this) and the color blends much easier than any of the other systems with the use of their “500″ blender. you can even use it to simulate a clear coat and double check the blend before you actually clear it! that was an awesome feature.
  then it comes down to clear coat. they showed us a couple clears that we werent big fans of at first, and as my perception of the product was starting to fall off they brought this clear called HPC21 out and blew my mind! I have never seen a clear that truly dries this fast with out any product failure like die back or solvent pop. I sprayed the clear, cleaned my gun, got a DA with some 1500 and by the time I walked back to the car which was just being pulled out of the booth (8 minutes after I sprayed it!) I put the DA on the hood and it powdered right up! couldnt believe it. No bake cycle, no heat and no problems. that stuff is fast and awesome! PPG has something like it but not nearly as fast or as easy to work wiht.

  All in all SW was definitly the right choice for us. we had ZERO problems during the demo, the color tools they have between the color chips and the online system are waaay ahead of the competition and make the painters life easy.

  Mike you mentioned they have hardly any chips for variants etc., I asked the rep about it and he showed me almost 3000 new chips that they added in the second half of last year and the first half of this year to, Maybe check it out again. there was only one color code in two weeks of demoing that SW didnt have. we had PPG and SW together demoing at the same time for a true comparison and SW put PPG to shame. many of the reasons are some of the changes they have made in the past couple months, give them another shot.

  in our first month with the product, we absolutely love it. the color is better, EVERYTHING, (primer, sealer, base and clear) is waaaay faster and much of it doesnt require any heat so Im excited to see how much our energy bill has gone down! should be about 40-50%

  The rep admitted that in the past couple years they have had their struggles but they have come a long way in the last 6 months or so and are definitly on the right track. not to mention the success of the company as a whole. I think they really are the wave of the future

• 200 mike // Jan 23, 2012 at 6:49 pm

  Bo that’s great. Glad to hear you found a product you love to spray and it works well in your shop. Confucius say, a happy painter is a productive painter.

  Thanks for leaving your feedback here,

  Cheers,

  ~Mike.

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