The Auto Body Blog

107 responses so far ↓

• 1 Anil Gurav // Jun 9, 2008 at 4:43 pm

  Great initiative by PPG.

• 2 mike // Jun 9, 2008 at 5:10 pm

  Thanks for the comment, all paint manufactures will be switching their solvent borne paint over in North America by 2010. It will be manditory by the government here in Canada.

  ~Mike.

• 3 Rich // Nov 7, 2008 at 3:08 pm

  Are all waterborne paints for automotive use basecoat/clearcoat? Is there a single stage type available? Thanks.

• 4 mike // Nov 7, 2008 at 5:35 pm

  Hi Rich, all waterborne paints are base/clear. PPG along with all other manufactures will be lowing the VOC’s in the clear coat as well. A 2.0 clear I believe it will be called.

  At this time there is no single stage waterborne paint available, but we are still using single stage for now. I will have a firm answer to this question soon Rich. I believe single stage paints will still be available after the dead line of January 2010. Single stage paints take very little solvent compared to the base coat which is usually reduced 1to 1.

  I will find the answer you are looking for here Rich.

  Thanks for the question.

  ~Mike.

• 5 mike // Jan 14, 2009 at 9:30 pm

  beeing a painter for 32 years i,ve seen some changes ,ive used
  water borne primers and found them to work on bumper covers and the results are far better than most people think,
  i look forward to the change.

• 6 mike w // Jan 14, 2009 at 9:38 pm

  being from calif. i liked using w.b mats. on covers , checked
  paint and some other apps. no solvent ,no shrinkage,to
  many painters try to use cat. primers guess what they dont
  work ,w,borne is a good prod. when used right. thanks

• 7 Jason // Jan 26, 2009 at 12:54 am

  Mike,
  I have found all of this information very help full for me. Im in washington state and am going to school to become a autobody tech. Im doing a report on W. bourne paints and I was wondering if you could e-mail me some info. I have a dead line for jan. 27 so if you could get back with me as fast as you can i would much appreciate it. thanks Mike

• 8 Arunzo // Jan 26, 2009 at 3:58 pm

  To the author – you say PPG in your opinion has the best WB and you have personaly sprayed it– well thats great but to me I would never say something was the best unless I have tried other manufacturers efforts. I have tried PPG Envirobase for a week and Dupont’s cromax pro WB for a week and to me the dupont was superior. How much do you get paid and what is your job title at PPG:) also every painter knows that on some applications you would be a fool to not use a spray out card- thats why they make waterbourne dedicated cards.

• 9 mike // Jan 31, 2009 at 2:39 pm

  Thanks Jason, I replied to your comment via your e-mail address. I would be happy to answer your questions regarding water borne paint.

  Thanks for the comment,

  ~Mike.

• 10 mike // Jan 31, 2009 at 2:54 pm

  Hey Arunzo, I have sprayed Sikkens water and my good friend was a Sikkens rep for five years. Once he sprayed PPG he was convinced that PPG was far superior than Sikkens. I have also sprayed Dupont water, a coat and a half system scares me on proper coverage. I heard Dupont changed that recently to the same way PPG is applied. I have also seen Sherwin Williams sprayed and I would not use that on my favorite fishing lure. I heard that Glasurit has gone back to the drawing board on their so called water borne. Same story with BASF, not a true water based paint. See the proof here ( The Onyx HD line makes life easier for the automotive refinisher because it is easy to apply, offers excellent covering power, complies fully with environmental regulations, and is safer to use than solvent-based products. In addition, Onyx HD tinting bases have no shelf-life limitations and will not freeze.) And will not freeze says it’s not a true water product.

  So I have either sprayed or seen sprayed almost all brands of water. I do not work for PPG or get paid by them, they couldent afford to pay me what I make now spraying vehicles all day long !!! You would be a fool not to spray out a card on all applications when using a new product, that was my point in that article. Anyways, that’s enough of trading verbal jargon about who’s the best !!! In my opinion I use the best water borne paint on the market today.

  Have a nice day,

  ~Mike.

• 11 missy // Feb 27, 2009 at 3:14 pm

  will we still be able to mix the older colors or only 2000 and newer?

• 12 john // Mar 14, 2009 at 8:13 pm

  Hey Mike, I have been in the collision repair bus. for 20 years. My current employer insists on using Sherwin Williams w.b. paints. They are terrible! I believe they are getting huge discounts to stay with S.W. Could you please E-mail me some info. and your opinion on why we should change. The upper level management won’t listen to the techs. No matter how much we struggle with the problems of S.W. We can’t even find a clear that the S.W. base does not seem to “soak up” and “dull out”.Believe me we have tried every idea in application we can possibly think of even over night base drying before clear. I have come to the conclusion that it is the material. Thankyou, John in VA.

• 13 mike // Mar 15, 2009 at 12:34 am

  Hi Missy, PPG is working every day to further thier color library and go back in time more than 10 years. That is many, many colors so this will take some time. As of right now 10 years back is what you can mix in water.

  Thanks for the question,

  ~Mike.

• 14 mike // Mar 15, 2009 at 12:54 am

  Hi John, the feedback I have heard on S.W. is not good and from your comment it seems like it is worse than the info passed on to me. I have never really heard good things about S.W. and I used the product for a month before leaving the shop I was at.

  Please let me know what kind of info you are looking for and I will be sure and pass it on to you. I can never seem to believe how management/shop owners will let people struggle and even leave/quit over a product that does not work. A painter that has sprayed for 20 years deserves the best product on the market. I mean come on, over night drying to not get die back problems is ridiculous. That would be the end of that paint for me !!! No matter how much the “Discount”, the product does NOT work and would be out of my shop promptly and replaced with PPG Envirobase HP.

  Sounds to me like they are willing to sacrifice poor quality finishes and risk employee’s for a good deal on poor quality paint. No one will want to bring thier vehicle back to your shop and therefore there will be no work. Unbelievable I must say.

  So if I can assist you in any way John I would be more than happy to do so. Keep your chin up and hopefully you can get that Sherwin Willams out of your shop.

  ~Mike.

• 15 mavel // Mar 16, 2009 at 6:42 am

  Hi Mike,

  I like to react on the following part from your reaction to Arunzo.
  ————————————–
  I heard that Glasurit has gone back to the drawing board on their so called water borne. Same story with BASF, not a true water based paint. See the proof here ( The Onyx HD line makes life easier for the automotive refinisher because it is easy to apply, offers excellent covering power, complies fully with environmental regulations, and is safer to use than solvent-based products. In addition, Onyx HD tinting bases have no shelf-life limitations and will not freeze.) And will not freeze says it’s not a true water product.
  ————————————–
  Well Mike, I don’t work for BASF (Glasurit and RM) but found an interesting explanation (thanks to good old Google).
  ————————————–
  The water enters the system through a mixing clear and a reducer during the formula weigh up. BASF officials say this unique chemistry eliminates concerns about product freeze-thaw during transport and storage as only three products in the line contain water. Additionally, the toners contain a very high concentration of pigment in a small package. These smaller packages take up less storage space, allowing shops to have a wide variety of color on hand.

  To read the whole article use this link:

  http://www.search-autoparts.com/searchautoparts/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=434745
  ————————————–
  Mike, all manufacturers use solvents in their waterborne basecoats, check some MSD Sheets and see that the average waterborne basecoat contains around 350 gram per liter (as opposed to around 750 for solvent borne basecoat). It’s still called waterborne. How much meat is there in a hamburger huh? And actually that’s not so important, it has first of all to comply with VOC legislation and be under the treshold for that category, so if paint manufacturers could fix it another way it doesn’t even need to be waterborne.

  Whilst I am here I would like to comment on 2 following article extracts as well…

  April 18, 2008

  ”You will no longer need to do a spray out card to see if your manually sprayed card matches those dyed color chips those other paint companies supply you. With PPG’s Envirobase you just look at the color chip, if it matches the vehicle you go ahead and spray the vehicle, no wasted time and material.”

  January 18, 2009

  As I have discovered, I need to do spray out cards on all colors and check for a good color match. This also creates a color library and saves time tinting down the road when a color is not acceptable. Proper documentation is a must when tinting a color.

  What’s it gonna be Mike? Yes or No?

  By the way, I especially love the 2 parts ‘those other paint companies’ and ‘those dyed color chips those other paint companies supply you’. Hilarious. You may not work for PPG or get paid by them but boy oh boy what an attitude. Your blog is plastered with PPG ads, articles etc. It may be none of my business but honestly, you may consider changing the tagline of the blog from ‘DEDICATED TO THE COLLISION REPAIR TECHNICIAN’ to ‘DEDICATED TO PPG’.

  You’d be a cool dude when you kept this comment on your blog because hey, that’s where blogs are for, to share and learn and all in the light of ‘DEDICATED TO THE COLLISION REPAIR TECHNICIAN’.

  Marc

• 16 David // Mar 18, 2009 at 11:50 am

  We started using PPG waterborne paint a few months ago. Our painters have no problems matching colors and the product quality is great.

• 17 Dominick Austin // Apr 20, 2009 at 6:55 pm

  Mike,
  Don’t let everybody get you down, no one can know everything about everything at all times and if you did, well you’d be the ultimate paint master. My question is simple. I run a small bicycle painting business and I currently have to go and buy little pints of ppg paint (which is awesome by the way). I want to do everything greener for my health and for the peace of mind of my eco-friendly customers. So when I do start mixing my own paints, I want to start it all off with PPG Waterbourne paints, instead of setting up with traditional products & equipment and then having to convert. How can i make this happen and, is there specific equipment required for using waterbourne systems? Thanks!

• 18 Richard Canada // Apr 23, 2009 at 6:14 pm

  Hi Mike
  I have been using BASF paints for most of my life I am going to be 52 soon. We switched to BASF Onyx about eight months ago My observations both good and bad are as follows;

  Good
  mixed product is easy to spray
  color matches are for the most part good
  product drys quickly
  product support is good

  Bad
  Mixing this product is awful, toners are way to thick.
  Mixing converted product requires air shaker (like oil and water)
  Shelf life of mixed product is to short
  Color max chips do not always match mixed color (they were sprayed with solvent base)
  expensive
  seems like a quick conversion to water, just to be in the running (disappointed thought it would be simply relabeled Glasurit technology)

  I am currently looking at a new system including PPG this looks the best so far, have yet to see Dupont We are a large GM dealership here in Canada the whole freezing thing is not a problem? Product is delivered to us and stored in heated shop, but I still here people mention it a lot.
  PPG chip system is nice if colors match them, only ten years back could be a problem some times?

  Just my 2 cents, Thanks for the info
  Richard

• 19 mike // Apr 23, 2009 at 8:06 pm

  Hey Mavel, I think all those fumes have gone to your head. I will leave your nice comment alone. !!! Enjoy your BASF paint, you can keep it.

• 20 mike // Apr 23, 2009 at 8:16 pm

  Hey David, thanks for the comment. Glad to hear PPG Envirobase is working well for you and your collision repair shop. It’s the number one waterborne system on the market today.
  Hope you visit again soon,

  ~Mike.

• 21 mike // Apr 23, 2009 at 8:25 pm

  Hello Dominic, when you spray PPG water you don’t really need to much as far as equipment. A hand held blower is all you need to dry the base coat. A heated area to spay in is ideal but not mandatory. So all you really need is a hand held blower and your set. The sealers and the clears are all the same as we were using with the solvent borne product. For bicycles like you are painting I would use Shopline Clear, cheep and looks really good when applied correctly.

  With saying that you’ll need a good sized compressor, nothing huge but something that will keep the air blowing to dry the base coat. Other than that you should be fine. Where abouts are you living, you can contact PPG through their website and find a local representative in your area to help you with the transition.

  Thanks for the comment and good luck with you business,

  ~Mike.

• 22 fliphkd778 // Apr 30, 2009 at 12:20 am

  Does PPG’s waterborne paint require a special gun or additional tools?

• 23 mike // Apr 30, 2009 at 6:30 pm

  Yes it does, a dedicated water borne gun. No special guns are needed, I use an Iwata W-400 LV to spray water and it woks awesome. Tree stand/s and blowers to dry the water and your off to the races.

  Thanks for the question,

  ~Mike.

• 24 Todd // Apr 30, 2009 at 10:33 pm

  Hi Mike,
  Ok, I’m trying to tackle the Waterborne automotive finishes soon.
  I’ll be purchasing a Asturo WB 5008 HVLP gun. What size tip is usually used for the PPG Envirobase WB products, basecoat and clearcoat? (1.3mm) Also since I’m a newbie what size tip for the primer? (1.8mm)
  This would be my first full auto paint job using Envirobase!

  Todd

• 25 mike // Apr 30, 2009 at 10:54 pm

  Hi Todd, thanks for the comment and question. I just checked to see what your gun looked like and it looks like you will have great finishes with this gun, almost looks like an Iwata W400.

  You need to know that water is a little thicker in viscosity than solvent is. I use a 1.4 mm Iwata W-400 to spray PPG Envirobase HP with excellent results. When I spray their clear coats, 8150, 894 or 893 clears I use a Sata Jet RP digital 1.2 mm tip. This tip size atomizes their clear into finer droplets resulting in a smoother, glass like finish. I put clear on to look like glass with two coats.

  The 1.8 mm tip will work great for their primer, I use the new 8005 primer which is compatible with the water. It is a little thinner than the older primers which were a little thicker.

  So it looks like you are on the right track Todd, water is awesome and I know you’ll love it, the colors are great and the application is very easy.

  Good luck and please let me know what you think of the PPG Envirobase HP.

  ~Mike.

• 26 khoa // May 7, 2009 at 12:03 am

  Hi I’m a ex auto refinisher/hobbyist and my full time job/business is running a resurfacing company me and my biz partner have tried many many different coatings and by homebrew waterbase not borne products and are looking for something in solid single stage white. we store clawfoot tubs and resurface countertops solid to granite faux finishes use about 2 gallons of clear a week and and haven’t found any wb clear thats under 300 so we just stick with dc92 diamont clear which builds up flat fast on our multi-spec/stone texture coatings nicely. but we hate the smell and the damn VOCs hahaha. we need something safer and do not want to sacrafice gloss at all. give me a ballpark price on WB clears out there. right now we use everything from UV instant cure coatings to 4 hour cure solvent base coatings and wb primer that smells like well water and its just so new to us we do not know how long this wb primer and topcoat will last because its produce by guys like me that have been in the resurfacing business for so long and now have had it with solvents and they go and hire chemist to formulate their own waterbase coatings. so mike or anyone out there can you help us find a strong industrial singstage coating or clearcoat that is as strong as the solvent base clears out there for good price give me prices i want to know the difference.

• 27 jason mcintyer // May 27, 2009 at 4:00 pm

  hey mike i have sprayed with an Iwata and love it. I had been using it for about 6 or so years. Then about 2 yrs. ago my Matco Dealer came to me with the dura-block 007 and I love it more than the Iwata. I was wondering if you ever sprayed with it and if so how did you like it. let me know
  thank you

• 28 matthew freeman // Jun 24, 2009 at 5:15 pm

  mike,

  this is a very good blog that you have today i finished up my PPG certification, and the trainer from allison park, PA gave us so much info on the PPG envirobase. I just also graduated from school for major collision and auto body. I was at the ONLY school on the ENTIRE EAST COAST that has PPG envirobas. thats right if you dont believe me look it up. CORNING COMMUNITY COLLEGE. I have sprayed this many times and have never had a better paint system. I only use PPG products due to the fact that when ever i had used dupont, S.W. i had bad covering with there solevents and nothing has ever gone wrong with PPG solvent bases or water boure (knock on wood). this product drys so fast its unbelievable, you get 1 half of a car done then go to the other side and by the time you finish you 2nd side the first side is already for the next coat. I cant say anything but good from this product.

  one thing i would reccomend always useing a spray out car if you are doing a blend on a car. adre

• 29 Blake // Aug 7, 2009 at 3:33 pm

  Mike, I’ve been in the refinishing business 16 short years.I just recently got a new job spraying PPG waterbourne and I was curious about the product .I heard some many great things about the prodouct.Your site has giving me the information I needed.If,guys like myself could find shops as helpful as this site appear to be. The repair busines would be in a better stage then what it is today.THANK YOU!!!!

• 30 mike // Aug 8, 2009 at 12:08 am

  Hey Matthew, I am glad to hear you are using the PPG system, Envirobase HP and its working well for you. I agree with you on the S.W and DuPont systems, they are OK but PPG in my opinion is number one. Its nice to hear you just graduated from collision school, I love this trade and I am still very passionate about refinishing vehicles almost 20 years into the business. Each color is a little different but the final result has to be perfection, color wise and overall appearance.

  Keep up the great work and keep the passion inside you, the business will treat you well.

  Sorry for the delay in my reply, please visit again soon and tell me how things are going for you.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 31 mike // Aug 8, 2009 at 12:16 am

  Hello Blake and welcome, thanks for your comment its very humbling indeed. I shall do my very best to help others who love what they do, we can vent here, we can share tips here, we can help each other with colors here and we can all get better and learn more about the water borne system in the process. I felt there was a need to share my experiences with others who can benefit from my trials and failures or success.

  One thing I can honesty say is that I will never stop learning and getting better at what I do. As we all know, some days are better than others but in the end, it was I was called to do. Paint !!!!! Prep !!!! Its my passion, it’s my career, its my bread and butter. I have been blessed with a new Job recently and I feel like getting up in the morning and giving 110% to my employers. I hope you share the same feelings and passion as I.

  Thanks so much Blake and look forward to hearing from you soon, any questions feel free to ask, chances are good I will be able to assist you.

  ~Mike.

• 32 mike // Aug 8, 2009 at 12:24 am

  Thanks Richard, your two cents are very much appreciated indeed. Freezing should not be a concern as all distributors know how to handle the situation. All water is/should be transported in closed heated vehicles. I have heard of situations where product is stored in semi-trailers while being from one point to the next, the semi breaks down or some malfunction occurs and some product freezes. It is rare though but I guess it does happen.

  The more popular colors are up to date but some of the older colors still need to be added to the system, it will take some time but all the paint manufactures are in the same boat.

  Thanks so much for you “Two Cents” feel free to comment anytime you wish. Good luck with your search on a new water system for your shop, I know what I would spray !!!!!!

  ~Mike.

• 33 Tom // Aug 20, 2009 at 8:02 pm

  I stumbled across this site in one of my Google searches. I’m Confused a bit. Is this a PPG site? Or is Mike a PPG employee or just simply a PPG Groupie? Regardless, we are all entitled to our opinions. However I do need to ask where you get your “facts”?

  ———————————————————–
  “The PPG water based paint has been used at the factory level since 1992 and is the very first water based paint. I know you have heard many stories that other paints were the first to invent this product but this is just not the case.”
  ———————————————————–

  Where did you get this information? I’d like to read all about it. I have read other material that contradicts this and would like some clarity.

• 34 mike // Aug 20, 2009 at 11:40 pm

  Tom, If that is your real name. I do NOT work for PPG. Groupie, that’s a good one. And yes we are entitled to our opinions. I noticed you never left me a link to your website, must be because you do not have one. Regardless that’s here nor there.

  So you need clarity, OK no problem, we will clear the air for you Tom. The site is my own, I built it with hard work and knowledge, 18 years in the trade. FACT is look here, notice the right side bar on the page https://corporateportal.ppg.com/NA/Refinish/PPGRefinish/2-0-Products/060_Waterborne/EN/PPGhistory If you want to get technical than ICI had the first water borne paint but PPG bought them out along with MaxMeyer in the 1990s.

  I hope that clears the air for you Tom,

  Feel free to give me some of your Facts, I look forward to hearing from you.

  ~Mike.

• 35 Andy // Aug 28, 2009 at 1:47 pm

  Sikkens has WB Clear! beat that PPG! lol i think its all personal perference.

• 36 Andy // Aug 28, 2009 at 2:49 pm

  PPG does have DCU2021 CLEAR. BE-A-U-TI-FUL CLEAR everyone can agree on that.

• 37 mike // Aug 28, 2009 at 6:25 pm

  Yes they do Andy 250 and its very good clear, I have sprayed it and I like it. It goes a long way also. PPG has water borne clear, they just cannot use it in Canada yet as it has a certain chemical in it that has not been approved by the Canadian government YET. Very soon you will see it in Canada.

  I agree with you Andy, it is personal preference to a degree.

  Thanks for the comment,

  ~Mike.

• 38 Mark // Oct 21, 2009 at 9:34 am

  Mike , We paint race cars and we paint on our graphics, so there will be one base color put down and then a paint mask will be laid over that for the top color to be put on. Then the mask will be removed and all will be cleared. What is the time for the first color to be dry enough to put the mask down and take off with out the mask peeling up the first color put down?

• 39 mike // Oct 24, 2009 at 2:29 pm

  Hello Mark, If you have enough air movement and heat combined then you should be good with 20-30 min. That should be more than enough time to let it flash before you mask it again and apply another color. Obviously you are using fine line tape and that tends to leave less tape residue than 3/4 inch or 2 inch tape does.

  Thanks for your question Mark and hope to see you back here soon,

  ~Mike.

• 40 XAM90 // Nov 21, 2009 at 9:48 am

  I recently stumbled across this blog. I find it very interesting that everyone seems to have a favorite paint. In my experience I have seen the positives and negatives of all of them. My biggest concern is drying. It seems that all waterborne paint is difficult to dry. Any ideas?

• 41 mike // Nov 21, 2009 at 8:53 pm

  Not so hard to dry at all, at least not with PPG Envirobase HP. Three ways to dry the water borne. 1. ceiling fans work great, 2. tree stands and blowers which PPG supplies (Iwata Blowers and tree stands) can be placed fairly close the the panel and also work excellent to dry the water base 3. Equip your booth with wall mounted blowers. We use a Juneair booth which has Quads installed in the booth from factory, I set the quad temp to 38 degrees Celsius 100.4 degrees Fahrenheit and hit the button on the control panel that says “Quad Start” and in four minutes each coat of water base is dry. So its really that simple, PPG dries quickly and has awesome color matches as well.

  Thanks for your comment and hope to see you back again soon.

  ~Mike.

• 42 Robert Greer // Dec 8, 2009 at 8:14 pm

  hi Mike I am a jouney level paint tech with over thirty three years of experience and have not sprayed WB color system yet.I have the chance to take over a chevy dealership bodyshop .They have a new heated down draft and have dupont WB system.I have heard good things about ppg system and alot of shops in this area are using it even though we are not required yet.I have use the DBC system for over twelve years and Ican do anything with it.My question is do I try to get the owner to switch to PPG WB or try to learn the dupont system.I know when you change a paint line you might have to pay for your current paint line to get another.Which the owner wont like .Please give me your advise.Reagards Robert Greer

• 43 mike // Dec 9, 2009 at 3:29 pm

  Hello Robert, thanks for your question and welcome to the Blog. I have heard that DuPont’s color are not so great. If it was me in your position I would push for the PPG Envirobase system to be installed in your collision repair facility. I am currently working for a Chevy dealer and we have awesome results with GM colors in PPG waterborne base coat. We are an all makes repair facility and we have excellent results with Toyota, Honda, Saab, Benz, Nissan, and most other imports.

  The way things work here is when you switch your old paint system out DuPont should buy back all your unopened stock and PPG might help you with your open toners. You will need to discuss this with your local area PPG paint representative.

  I know you will be happy you switched to PPG once you and your painter start spraying the Envirobase base coat. Success and happy customers will e coming your way !

  I hope this helps you in the decision making process. Please feel free to ask any more questions about the product and if need be, I can get you in touch with your local area representative to demo the product.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 44 Robert Greer // Dec 9, 2009 at 7:16 pm

  Thanks Mike for getting back to me so quick.I will be the painter at the GM dealer and be building the whole crew .Please check out my web site also.You would be interested in the tool I built.Thanks Robert Greer

• 45 mike // Dec 10, 2009 at 12:15 am

  No problem Robert, I checked out your website and what an awesome tool, I know for me that would make my life ALOT easier. With your permission I would like to put a link on my website to your website in hopes you can generate some sales leads from it. I would also like to write a short post and put it on the website, again with your approval. I think more tradesmen need to see this tool in action.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 46 Robert Greer // Dec 10, 2009 at 9:58 pm

  Thanks Mike as a pro paint tech you know that polishing is sometimes the most labor intensive part of the refinishing step.You are more than welcome to use my website.This technology is in its infancy.There are going to be some realy cool changes coming out for polish application.I would like to ship you a demo unit to try its the first generation unit called TG-100.Thanks Robert Greer

• 47 mike // Dec 11, 2009 at 10:18 pm

  Hey Robert, sorry for the slow reply. That would be much appreciated if you could ship me one of your TG-100 units. I would like to let my supplier see it and use it as well. I am going to send him a link to your website so he can see it for himself. I was talking to him this morning about you. He seemed very interested in looking at your site.

  I am going to add your site to my Blogroll now and what I can do is send you my mailing address in an e-mail, so you have my shipping information. Thanks so much for the offer and hope to be in touch with you soon Robert.

  ~Mike.

• 48 Bob // Dec 22, 2009 at 10:26 pm

  mike we (9 painters) went to Detroit for three days of training on standox waterborne and thought it seemed like a good paint.When we started to use it in the shop the color matches and the metal flake we’re not in the ballpark.Thanks for the open forum. It’s been an ongoing education. We need water in our shop by the end of 2012 and need to find a solution way before the deadline gets here

• 49 mike // Dec 23, 2009 at 1:47 am

  Hello Bob, I am sorry to hear that the Standox product is not working out for you. It used to be top of the line paint not so long ago. It sounds like you are part of a major collision facility.

  You are more than welcome for the open forum, we all learn that way I believe. You should take a look at PPG Envirobase HP, spray it and take a close look at your color matches. try some hard colors and see what you think of the match. If you do not need to covert to water until 2012 then at least you have some time to try the Envirobase system, I know you will like it. PPG also has many great programs to help your business grow and prosper.

  Please feel free to ask any questions you need answers to here, if I dont have the answer I will find it for you.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 50 Kevin // Dec 25, 2009 at 5:57 pm

  Would likr to know after clear can you wet sand and buff ? I am new to the waterborn and want give it a try. On some of new choppers in the shop. Thanks

• 51 mike // Dec 25, 2009 at 8:51 pm

  Hey Kevin, yeah there is no problems with wet sanding and polishing your clears when you are done the job. I do it all the time with no issues. Once you try water it’s hard to go back to solvent.

  Thanks for your question, if you have any more questions please feel free to ask me.

  ~Mike.

• 52 pete // Dec 27, 2009 at 6:31 pm

  Mike …..been a painter for 30 years when base coat clear coat came out we started with dbu worked great dbc even better once they came out with dx57 ….then we here in California last year had to go to water base ..we went wth envirobase …i employ a young painter and he was eager to make the change and very open to it WOW what a breezzeee it was he was very happy and very easy to paint and color matching great you always have a few but the few color matches that didnt match were a short int here and there and DONE …well our contract with ppg was up and our supplier said ppg couldnt do much for us and he wanted to switch to sikkens they would take better care of us ..so we let them bring it in and started painting …..My painter hate it you have to spray with more air pressure ,gotta change your paint tips 1.3 no good gotta have 1.4 , when you pour your mix in the container you have to stir it before you add your water ,????? are you kidding me .the computer is so confusing code 50 on a chevrolet a list of 25 codes try picking the right one for that what a pain good thing we didnt sign a contract …im pulling it out after 2 weeks …PPG is way simple less products no rules it is what it is very user friendly were switching back tommorow …in my opinion the easier the better less room for mistakes we alraedy have enough on our minds than to complicate things any more than it already is …thats my opinion and trust me we tried to make it work color chips were never right on you couldnt look and pick that one chip that said im it ! ppg there was always that one hat just stood out …IF IT WORKS DONT FIX IT …….ENOUGH SAID ! Im glad i found thi site its renforced my decision……..thanks Pete

• 53 mike // Dec 27, 2009 at 7:13 pm

  Pete, thanks for your comment. I feel your frustrations coming through in your comment. It sucks when you have to fight with colors and pull your hair out learning a new paint system. I noticed the same things you did, when you pull the Sikkens color chips from the variant deck they were not exactly as you spray them out. If I was a Sikkens customer/shop owner who was spraying their water, I would make them come in and manually spray all my most popular colors. Imagine how long that would take them!!!!

  That was one selling point for me, PPG color variant deck chips were exactly as you sprayed them on your spray-out cards. This instills confidence in us painters and makes daily painting as smooth as it can be. Like you said, you get bad colors here and there but for the most part they are great. Also I am adding to my import color library as sometimes there are no color chips for certain import car manufactures. But the good news is they are going to be updating the color chips very soon and we will see more import colors included in that update.

  I also agree with what you say, the simpler the paint and the application process the better. That way the paint process becomes fool proof. Customers are happy that their vehicle color matches perfectly, and it shines like it never has before. After all that is what people see upon pick up of the car.

  So thanks for your comment Pete, I’m glad you found the site also and I encourage you to visit often. I will be posting new articles frequently.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 54 billy duggins // Dec 31, 2009 at 12:03 am

  gotta say i , love all this back and forth.. I am PPGcertified and i would use nothing else other than Envirobase HP. We switched from nexa Autocolor abot 9 months ago. This is the only WB i have used but if what you got is good,Why worry about the others.
  Now to my question. You said u use a iwata LPH400-lv. Which one? silver cap orange cap or purple cap? I currently use a silver cap. Also have you ever used a w-400 to spray wb? I did use it for clear but since we started useing D8152 clear(global)
  i found my rp with a 1.4 does better? Thank you and by the way you are exactly right about PPG’s take over of wateborne technology from ici. If u cant beat it buy it…

• 55 juan // Jan 12, 2010 at 12:59 am

  HI MIKE
  I HAVE USED CROMAX PRO FOR A YEAR AND HALF AND LET ME TELL YOU THAT THIS PRODUC IS BY FAR THE WORST PAINT LINE I’VE TRIED. ITS VERY DIFICULT TO APLY AND VERY DIFUCULT TO BLEND DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE METALICS LOOK DIFERENT IT JUST DOES NOT LOOK OEM.IN ADITION THE SIDE TONE ON PLAIN SILVERS ALWAYS LOOKS MILKY. I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THEIR BINDERS,CONTROLER AND BLENDER ARE RESPONSIBLES FOR ALL THE PROBLEMS WHITH THIS PAINT.FINALLY THE SHOP I WORK FOR SWITCH TO PPG EMVIROBASE AND LET ME TELL YOU ITS A SUPERIOR PRODUCT NOT ONLY FOR HOW EASY IT’S TO APLY IT BUT ALSO FOR THE LOOKS IT TRULY LOOKS OEM.I’VE BEEN PAINTING SINCE I WAS SEVENTEEN I’VE USED MANY DIFERENT BRANDS INCLUDING SHERWIN WILLIAMS,90 LINE BY GLASURIT,CROMAX,LE BEAR AND SIKKENS. THEY ALL HAVE DIFERENTS CARACTERISTICS BUT THE ONE I BELIVE ITS THE BEST NOT ONLY FOR APLYCATION OR THE COLOR MATCH BUT FOR THE VERSATILITY OF BEING ABLE TO TURN INTO A SINGLE STAGE FOR JAMBS IS 90 LINE BY GLASURIT.AND AS FAR THE COVERGE IS NOT REALLY A PROBLEM. ITS FANY TO SEE HOW A LOT A PAINTERS ARE HAVING THIS PROBLEM THEY NEVER STOP TO THINK THAT BY USING THE RIGH SHADE OF SEALER OR PRIMER WILL AVOID O LOT OF PROBLEMS.

• 56 mike // Jan 15, 2010 at 12:57 am

  Hello Juan, welcome to the autobodyblog. Thanks for your comment. Glad to hear you are enjoying the ease of Envirobase HP. I have heard DuPont is not the way to go as far as water borne is concerned. I am glad I am able to use Envirobase every day, like you stated on shades of sealer, if you mix the right shade of sealer than coverage is usually only two plus the control coat. Some reds and the odd yellow needs a coat or two extra I find.

  I used to love the 90 line by Glasurit, they had an awesome product. I used to love Sikkens back in the day also, but once I switched to PPG its hard to go back to the old stuff. There was nothing like the old 3+1 primer from Sikkens, I loved that stuff.

  Anyhow, glad to hear you are using PPG and are happy with the product, I know I am.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 57 ALEKS AUTO BODY WORKS AND COLLISION // Jan 15, 2010 at 11:19 am

  THIS IS A HIGH QUALITY PAINT WITH GOOD COVERAGE VERY LITTLE SMELL. SOME COLOURS ARE OFF BUT AT LEAST THEY HAVE VARIANT DECKS TO WORKS WITH

• 58 sparky // Jan 17, 2010 at 9:17 am

  Hi there!
  I’m hoping that I came to the right place.
  Yesterday I was`invited to a grand opening of a brand new bodyshop here in Portland Oregon. The co-owner of such bodyshop shows me the PPG paint mixing system in this booth . What I saw was a bunch of paint quart all line-up in this rack system that are held in place with a handle sticking out ready to grab on and pull! To the far right and on the bottom shelf I see this motor that is coupled with this gear box that looks it would an agitator, then there is rod that goes through each self of this system that seems to shake each can of paint at the same time. I am an electrician, and the owner tells me the motor has to be wired in a explosion proof manner. The system is installed on a wall, all I would have to do would be to line up the threaded part of the motor connection ,drill a hole through the wall put a short piece of threaded conduit (explosion proof) and have the other end of the pipe go into a junction box (mounted on the outside wall of the booth that is not explosion proof area) and provide power to the motor by ways of metallic flex from an existing circuit. I have never worked with explosion proof stuff, any information you provide me will greatly appreciated.

  thanks.

• 59 pete // Jan 17, 2010 at 7:29 pm

  I have a answer to the explosion proof wiring im not a electrician but we had to do that basically they dont want you pluging your motor that drives the paint machine into the wall via plug to socket .It just needs to be hard wired in …its goofy but a motor is close to paint if it should spark there would be a danger of fire thats it …..its not a big deal if you know basic wiring you could do it but if you dont it wont cost you much for a electrican to come in and do it ….

• 60 pete // Jan 17, 2010 at 7:49 pm

  Mike ,I have a question about moneys given to shops ….can you tell me normal practices in business. When we first opened our shop we were with out contract and having no really record but coming from a well known shop and our jobber knowing us personaly and supplying us with our side work materials ..me and my partner with credit rating of close to 900 we got 36,000 dollars up front money .We had the guy that was our jobber used to work for ppg …He had some one over him who s still at ppg in the same position…..lets put it this way this guy is a royal dick. Let me ell you were we are in the world to get a persective ..we are in Californis we are located in he central valley right in the middle of the state .We are what is considered the good ol boy area we are a prime market for big industry were no L.A we arnt San Fransico..This S.O.B. has the say over all the feild guys in our area …We all have heard the shop owner im talking about …that this guy braggs on how he short changes with pay out contracts and keeps his numbers low and is very proud of that fact .We had a deal with finish masters and PPG for 40,000 dollars up front mony and a rebate for 1,200 a month ….we were ready to sign this deal would have really helped us out ..just before we signed they called back and said we had not finished our contract ..Our jobber told us we had ,ppg never called our jobber to get the figures from him .I am convinced they had to show it to this upper guy and he just did the 5%liqued per year average and said no way . This all started because our original jobber tried to get us 50,000 for a 5 year deal and he rolld his eyes and said we dont do that any more ! I love PPG but im sure they dont know what this guy is doing out in the field ….Whats your take on this
  I know this is long winded but just wonder whats happening around the company ..this gives PPG a black eye like they dont care about there customers

• 61 pete // Jan 17, 2010 at 7:52 pm

  a correction in my pragraph up above WE ARE NOT IN A PRIME MARKET AREA

• 62 mike // Jan 17, 2010 at 9:28 pm

  Pete, thanks for helping out to answer Sparky’s question. Hopefully he has a better understanding of what and why this needs to be accomplished.

  As per your question on moneys given out for contracts from PPG, when I was a rep they based the monies on how many square feet the shop was and how many people the shop employed. Then we asked the shop owner how much paint he/she was going through per year. We just calculated the “Juice/liquids and NOT the sundries. Our PPG rep then submitted the numbers in to his boss and we came up with an up front investment from PPG to the shop owner. We were also able, as the jobber to help the shop owner with equipment he/she needed to get set up for water as we were no longer selling solvent.

  So to make a long story short here, it sounds like your local PPG personal are basing their investment on the size and number of people your shop employs. I know when we were looking to seriously gain a reputable shop’s business, we as the jobber would kick in monies as well to make the shop owner either 1. switch over or to PPG or 2. an existing account to keep PPG as their paint line.

  I don’t see why there is politics in your situation. It sounds to me like you need to get ahold of PPG and get the facts on your existing contract. If you are still in a contract with your current jobber, than how long do you have left in your contract. Also it sounds to me like you are changing jobber to “Finish Masters”. Can finish masters make up the difference in monies that your friend from PPG says he not going to do.

  As per this statement “I love PPG but I’m sure they don’t know what this guy is doing out in the field ….Whats your take on this. My take on this is, maybe the head office needs to hear about your situation. You can write a letter to PPG and ask them what their business practices are and present them your current situation. Hopefully they can provide you with some answers that you are looking for. It does not matter if you are in a prime market area or not. The good ol boys still count right Pete !!!!

  Hopefully that helps you out, please let me know what the outcome of your situation ends up being.

  Thanks Pete,

  ~Mike.

• 63 rich // Jan 17, 2010 at 11:35 pm

  I am in PA and only recently heard about the waterbourne knee jerk reaction to big like, global warming. I restore and paint about 1 car per year in my home garage. I have always used RM products. Since I can not buy a waterbourne paint booth, dryers, etc. or install filters and afterburners for other “low VOC” paints, is my time as a restoration enthusiat over? Are there waterbourne paints in existence or being developed that can be applied with conventional equipment for a person like myself?

• 64 mike // Jan 18, 2010 at 1:24 am

  Hey Rich, your question is a valid one. You do NOT need all the fancy water borne booths and afterburners and NO your days of being a restoration enthusiast are not over. Water borne paint requires a dedicated paint gun used only for water. If you own more then one gun then just clean it up and ONLY use it for water borne base coat. You can buy a hand held blower for cheep and you can use that to dry the basecoat. If you need to you can let the base coat air dry if you don’t want to buy a hand held blower. This will take some time but it will dry with enough heat and air movement.

  PPG’s Envirobase is applied with the same paint gun as I had with solvent borne base coat. I never changed the way I sprayed the water borne base coat. So to answer your question, PPG’s Envirobase HP can be applied exactly the same way as you are using solvent base now. I can spray, If legal in my area, water borne paint in my garage with the same gun I was using before.

  So you are still in business and you do not need to buy all this extra equipment to get your job done.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 65 rich // Jan 19, 2010 at 12:02 am

  What a relief! I have been hearing so many conflicting stories. I have no problem buying a new $500 paint gun or some other reasonable accessories. They don’t last forever anyway.

  It sounds like after someone gets familar with the paint (as is always the case) the biggest concern would be dirt inclusion. My concern with the blowers is really one of contaminates in the paint. As you are aware, even with the best efforts, it tough to control dust in a garage without a booth. I can take additonal measures like plastic curtains, putting in a smaller exhaust fan and limiting its use to name a few.

  While it appears it takes waterbourne paint much longer to fully cure, how do the “dust free” or “tack free” times compare? If it is only a couple of hours more, that is not bad, but if it is, say, 24 hours, then contaminate control will be the most difficult part of this effort.

  Thanks in advance for your help. I at least have some hope now.

• 66 mike // Jan 19, 2010 at 1:05 am

  Yeah no worries Rich, fear not you will be a pro in no time. Even in my Juneair booth which is brand new, it seems like I get more dust than I did when I sprayed solvent. I cant really put my finger on it as my routine has never really changed. But with more air movement in the booth comes more dust. I keep tacking between coats of base which helps solve the dust issue in most cases.

  For you I would advise you to spray your project in the summer months on a calm day and then open your garage door a little after you have sprayed your first coat of base and do this after each application, that way your base will flash off relatively quickly with the air flow and heat combined. You will be looking at start to finish, 2-3 hours and then you can clear coat with no issues.

  Thanks Rich,

  ~Mike.

• 67 billy duggins // Jan 21, 2010 at 7:15 pm

  hey mike, want to say thanx for the advice u gave me on lowering the booth temp. it solved some of the problems i was seeing!! Now i want o ask u about another isue i ahve been having, on some gold and silvers i have noticed a mottleing on the hood. do you have any suggestions to liminate this blotchy appearance? Like i sid it oly seems to be silver, gold usally limited to a hood or a flat surface. One more thing, to all the bloggers out there: when this guy(mike) tells you something,its true,he is very smart on this water!!
  billy

• 68 guy bina // Jan 22, 2010 at 12:14 am

  mike great forum my question is how come you never mention t588 base coat hardner ? and what is the advantage or disadvantage thank you wyoming proud guy bina.

• 69 mike // Jan 22, 2010 at 11:14 pm

  Hey Billy, glad to hear the advice I gave you is working for you, that is a success. As per your question on the mottling issue. Here is what I suggest. When I spray a good hiding color I spray the first coat on heavy, almost like I want coverage in one coat. Then on the second coat I put the base on lighter and my gun speed is quicker. I also increase my gun distance from the panel to make the second coat look uniform. So now my base is looking more uniform and even.

  Then I apply my control coat and let dry. I check the look of the base when dry and sometimes on silvers and golds, I apply a second control coat and that will take care of the blotchy appearance.

  Thanks for the compliment as well Billy,

  ~Mike.

• 70 mike // Jan 22, 2010 at 11:18 pm

  Hey Guy, welcome to the Blog. As per your question on the T588, I have never used it as I have heard the is no reason too. So I really see no need to add something to the base to activate it. I do however use the T580 and T581 on some inner applications.

  Thanks for your question and hope to see you here again soon.

  ~Mike.

• 71 billy duggins // Jan 23, 2010 at 12:02 am

  hey mike i heard you mention t580?? what is this? t581 is for engine bay, but 580? I was told unless you are doing warranty repair like GM(which requires the base to be activated) you dont need t588,not to mention it greatly changes the viscosity. thank you for the advice

• 72 Bob G // Feb 10, 2010 at 12:19 pm

  hey mike, have any knowledge of the martin senour tech system as far as color match is concerned. and how is their wb system.

• 73 Larry // Feb 19, 2010 at 10:44 am

  Hi Mike,great site you have,I would like to point out that the Dupont Cromax Pro has a huge following with over 1400 customers in the U.S. and Canada.They have sprayed alternate decks,with an awesome match,one coat coverge followed by an half coat with no flash time,and no they have not changed it to the be like the ppg flash between coats,this technology stems from the Spies Hecker water system.Were going into the booth spraying the car walking out to clean the gun,and in down draft Garmat with the Garmat Fans and in 8 to 12 minutes its ready for clear,were seeing complete cycles including bake cycle in 40 to 45 minutes,it is an awesome product.Oh yea as far as being scared of the coverage in 1 and 1/2 coats weve never seen a time when it wasn’t covered,were not using any hand blowers and getting the cleanest jobs we’ve ever got.

• 74 mike // Feb 19, 2010 at 4:16 pm

  Hello Larry, thanks for the compliment on the site. I am happy to hear that DuPont has such a great following in the US and Canada. I am also glad to hear that it is working out for you and the people you know. As I know being a professional painter, there is nothing more frustrating than fighting with colors all day, every day. Also, speed and cycle times are very important to me also being a flat rate technician.

  If you are a professional like I am, It takes minimal time to get to know a system, whether it be PPG’s, DuPont’s, RM and so on. I have no doubt in my mind that in one week I will get to know any paint system, have the jobs look better than your trainers or tech reps and have no dust in the jobs. I don’t say this to make you think I am better than, it is because I use the paint every day. I teach my tech reps and trainers as I am in the field, they are in the lab. The facts are Larry, they are all awesome products if applied correctly and you have the technical know how.

  With the new clear coat from PPG, EC 700 and EC 750 my cycle times have improved with the one visit clear. I am ready to clear in 9 minutes, we use a Juneair booth that I can adjust the blower temperature and have each coat of base flashed off in 3 minutes. So I clear coat after 9 minutes and bake for 30 minutes. So that takes me to 39 minutes total. Now this is 2 coats of base and a control coat which is 2 and a half coats. That gives me piece of mind using 2 plus a control coat. We all know that every color is not perfect but the one’s that are not good or say poor, I tint and then document all color corrections and file the spray out card away for a later date in case that color comes my way again.

  So Larry I am glad to hear all is well with you and you are having success.

  ~Mike

• 75 Leon // Feb 22, 2010 at 11:47 am

  Mike, this open forum is a great idea. I see you have to survive a few barbs now and again. Providing an open forum to discuss waterborne is fantastic, anyone who reads this can make informed decisions rather than just operating in the dark or on a salemans word. GOOD WORK.

• 76 mike // Feb 23, 2010 at 1:11 am

  Hello Leon and welcome to the Blog. Glad to hear you are enjoying what you are reading. Being criticized is part of the gig. when you put yourself out to the world there are many people who will not agree with you and even some who are down right nasty. What you have to do is let is run off your back and not take it personally. You need to keep doing what you love to do, I love to help people succeed when they fall short. If I can help one I feel gratitude, if I help many then it makes it all worth it for me.

  Please feel free to drop by our Blog often and leave a comment or ask a question. I will be happy to chat with you again soon.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 77 Digger // Mar 9, 2010 at 5:53 am

  Hello
  Just been having a read about the ppg water base, my shop is putting it in at the end of the week.
  I have used the glasurit system in another shop before and thought it was really good.
  So let u know what i think of ppg.
  Will write back.
  Thanks

• 78 Ryan // Mar 11, 2010 at 4:43 pm

  Hey Mike, I have been using envirobase for just over two tears. I love it! It ease of use and color matches make it a fast process. My only complaint and I want to see if you notice it too, is the occasional chunk of color that gets spit out on panels. For example, On a silver color(I tend to notice it the most with this color) if there is a blue toner say T415, It will spit little chunks of that toner in the silver making tiny little blue specks in the finish. Its not terribly noticeable but I see it and its a bit frustrating. I use the 3m pps system with the appropriate micron filter and I also pre-filter using 125micron strainers. Is it just me, or do you have this problem too?

• 79 mike // Mar 11, 2010 at 8:24 pm

  Hey Ryan, welcome to our Blog. I used to see that quite often, little blue or red dots in the paint. I thought it was not straining properly myself but that’s not the problem, the problem is that the pigments are not mixing together correctly. What you need to do is shake the mixed base before you spray it to get rid of the blue dots. If your PPS cup is full or you mix 18 oz of paint in your 16300 cups, than you can shake it for about 1 minute until all the toners mix together properly. If you use the 16324 cups, then mix 23 oz which will only leave a little room in the cup. Shake the paint by hand until you know all the paint has mixed together. There is not enough air in the cup to cause the paint to bubble and make it un-sprayable. If you only mix say half the cup of paint and shake it to much, then you will see the major bubbles form. So don’t shake it too much if you only mix small amounts in a 16300 PPS cup or the 16324 cup. Instead, stir it more than you normally do now to get all the colors to bind together.

  That should do the trick Ryan, I had the same issue and I solved it by shaking the paint to get rid of my irritating blue or red dots. Like you said, silvers are the worst for this issue. I hope that solves your issue, please write back and let me know if that corrects the problem.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 80 Nic // Mar 25, 2010 at 12:26 am

  mike,

  Im new to the refinishing business but have been blasting classics and newer cars and parts for years. I now do 5-6 compete builds a year and a few collision jobs, I have tried out a few waterborne paints one being PPG and i liked it. I also used one called gen20 by genstar and found it to be comparable to PPG. have you heard of it? used it? if not could you try it out and let me know what you think… Really the problem i have is the people where i live that sale PPG are not a reputable company i cant rely on them they dont know how to mix paint. and they dont care about the customer im not in a position to put a bank in so i have to rely on my suppler alot. also have you ever shot a complete in waterborne thats what i would like to do next and would love some tips thank for all the great info hope to here from you soon.

• 81 Ryan // Mar 30, 2010 at 12:59 pm

  Hi Mike,
  Yes that has seemed to correct the problem. I still pre-strain it before I pour it in the PPS cup. Works great! Now I officially have no complaints with the Envirobase! Thanks for the advice!

  -Ryan

• 82 mike // Mar 30, 2010 at 6:14 pm

  Hey Ryan, yeah no worries. It is still good to strain your base as sometimes, especially when a color has allot of T491 in it, you will get that dry powder pouring into the mix as it comes out of the bottle. I strain all my colors to make sure I have a clean looking finish every time.

  Hope all is going well for you and hope to see you back on the Blog again soon. If you have any others questions feel free to ask me.

  ~Mike.

• 83 mike // Mar 30, 2010 at 6:53 pm

  Hello Nic and sorry for the delay in my reply to you. I am not able to spray any other brand of paint as we are under contract with PPG so I have not tried the paint you mentioned in your comment, Genstar.

  I have sprayed many completes with PPG Envirobase HP and love using it for total re-spray’s. The reason I love it is once you lay down your control coat the base is perfectly uniform with will look awesome for your restoration jobs. If you try it I know you will love it.

  Thanks for the comment and see you back here soon,

  ~Mike.

• 84 Big Dave // Apr 7, 2010 at 12:38 pm

  Hey Mike
  Iv’e been using PPG waterbourne with great results! I no longer use the blowers. I crank up the heat in the booth to 90 then go to work..after the base is applied..i take temp back to 75 for the clear coats…Works fine and between the base coats like the old days 7 to 10 minute flash and im busy getting another ready.Being a flat rate painter im impressed with this line.
  And yes 3+1 was magic in its day.lol! Was a sikkens painter for 8 years, but not a fan of their waterbase..slower dry times. If i was to open a shop it would be either PPG or ICI that would be put in place….and ya i wouldnt paint a lure with SW awhacked waterbase either..TC Mike and great site by the way!!!

• 85 Jay // Apr 30, 2010 at 10:45 pm

  Mike,

  Learned a bit here reading up on PPG and water based paints. I am having my 77 Fiat Spyder restored and i am at the painting stage. My guy has the car completely sanded out and primed and now is where I worry… the previous paint was a lacquer and pretty it was. I am an oil based guy as I do interiors of homes….

  Ben Moore makes the only water based paint I like called AURA. Its damn expensive but worth it. As for the car what should I read up on before I give the green light. I live in California and LA at that. Am I going to be less happy with a water based coat on my baby Italia!

  If you could give me a 1, 2 , 3 of what to ask or demand from my painter that would be appreciated. Is there different quality paints made by PPG? Thats the paint line he want to use. We also discussed the one step, two step and three step processes… any input would be helpful, Thanx Jay

• 86 Brian // May 1, 2010 at 7:56 pm

  What about custom airbrush work such as on motorcycle paint jobs? Is the waterborne paint compatible with airbrushes in order to do detail work? What about the candy type colors I see flame artists use – are there comparable waterborne paints? And pinstriping? What are your thoughts on the future of custom painting with the waterborne system? Excellent forum you have going here, by the way…very knowledgable

• 87 mike // May 1, 2010 at 10:57 pm

  Hello Jay, you are going to be more happy with the water based paint on your car. I would use water on my car if I was restoring it. Easier to lay out metallic colors as water is easier to eliminate blotch. The control coat takes care of this.

  So the 1,2,3 goes like this, ask him to seal the entire vehicle. Apply the Enviobase HP and blow dry, apply the control coat and let air dry 15 minutes and then go ahead and clear coat using D894 High solids clear if you are able to use it in California, VOC regulations may prohibit the use of this clear coat but your painter would know if you can use it or not.

  The higest quality paint from PPG is Envirobase HP, Gloabal was the highest in the solvent line, then Deltron, then Shopline, Omni and lastly Value Pro.

  Hope that helps you out Jay, please feel free to ask any further questions if you have any.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 88 Jay // May 3, 2010 at 10:26 am

  Thanx Mike, You answered some of the 1,2,3′s now the 4,5,6′s!

  Why are there so many levels of paint? And what cost basis would I expect to see from bottom to top? Where would you draw the line at? Top two?

  Are all the levels going to require same labor/work? Seems when you ask for higher cost products they want to charge more for job. Should that be the case?

  I also saw some samples of jobs I liked but they were three step process. More cost. Why is that the better looking job?

  And the final coat. You say use d894. That would be oil based. Surely against LA County rules. Should I even paint my car in this city! What would be the best equal if I am stuck with another product. And what does the lesser product lose me?

  Cheers Jay

• 89 mike // May 9, 2010 at 10:32 pm

  Hello Jay, sorry for the late reply. So many levels of paint because every paint manufacturer sells to many different level of shops. What I mean by that is some shops are high quality and only do high end work, therefore they use the best or top of the line products. Then there are shops that do say allot of rental cars and they have a certain budget to adhere to, therefore they would use a lower line of a paint manufacturer’s product as they have a limit on material cost’s. Going further, the paint companies do fleet vehicles and industrial equipment, so they use another line of the same paint manufactures product. I hope that makes sence to you.

  The clear coat I suggested you use is an acrilic urathane product and should be available for you to use as long as it meets the VOC regulations in your area. This clear when sprayed properly can look like glass, I use three coats on high end vehicles, the first coat I apply medium and let flash for 15-20 minutes and then the next coat I apply a little heavier and let dry 15 minutes and then the third I apply slow and heavy to create that deep glassy look. It looks so deep you can see your reflection in it.

  Now in terms of labor, when I prepare (prep) a vehicle I final sand with 800 grit dry sandpaper, that is standard no matter if it’s a two stage paint job or a three stage paint job. The vehicle is then blown off and wiped down. The tri-stage paint job takes more labor time then the two stage paint job as you are putting on more base and that requires the base to dry longer. So as per cost of the job going up, yes that will affect the overall coat of the paint job. It will cost more for the paint and more for the labor time. In a shop we get paid tri-stage time. Here is an example, a two stage paint job pays me 10 hours for John Doe’s car but for a tri stage paint job it pays me 15 hours. So for a complete John Does car is 30 hours for a two stage paint job, but for a tri stage it pays me forty hours.

  So finally, I would ask your painter or the local PPG rep if you can use D894 clear coat and price out the cost of a tri stage paint job over the two stage paint job. If you plan on driving the car every day then I would suggest the two stage route, if you need to repaint the vehicle down the road it will save you some cash, but if you only show the car and have tons of cash, then go the tri stage route.

  Thanks Jay and good luck with you 77 Fiat.

  ~Mike.

• 90 mike // May 9, 2010 at 10:55 pm

  Hey Brian, almost missed your comment, my apoligies. The future of custom work and air brushing will be water borne. Many states will be mandated to change from the solvent based product to the water based product. Canada will be completly water based next month, June 2010. Many customs guys are already using water and loving it, I believe the Vibrance collection is available in water. There are pearls, candy’s and the likes in water as far as I know.

  I hope that answers your question Brian and thanks for the comment and questions.

  ~Mike.

• 91 Jay // May 22, 2010 at 10:43 am

  Mike, if I go without the metallic and do not clear coat any pointers on that? Jeff

• 92 mike // May 22, 2010 at 10:38 pm

  Yeah Jeff that will look awesome for sure. Single stage looks great when sprayed using a final coat of clear mixed in with the single stage. Here is what I do when I spray single stage. I mix enough for two coats of coverage, I then spray one coat quickly which the vehicle is not fully covered. I then put my second coat on wet and get full coverage and let both coats dry for 15-30 min depending on temperature. I then mix D894 clear coat into the single stage paint and put one final coat on the vehicle.

  It is important to note that I separately mix my clear coat and then add it to the already mixed single stage paint and stir it properly. I add the clear coat to the paint because it gives the paint better hold out from UV rays.

  I would use PPG Global single stage and mix D894 clear coat into the single as I have described.

  ~Mike.

• 93 Jay // May 23, 2010 at 9:18 pm

  not envirobase? and will most painters get the “add clear to the single stage solid”….?

• 94 Jay // May 24, 2010 at 12:17 am

  Hey Mike… where can i find the current PPG colors…? looked everywhere can find various years or makes but nothing newer……

• 95 mike // May 24, 2010 at 11:57 am

  Hello Jeff, you have to clear coat Envirobase as it is a base clear application. You can spray solid colors in Envirobase HP but they will need to be clear coated.

  You will need to talk to a PPG representative for all the new or old colors, or go to a shop where they have color books so you can look at all the colors you want.

  Some painters will add clear to the single stage but alot will not. You will need to request that from your painter if you want it done to your vehicle. I would add the clear to the single stage if I was painting my car a solid color.

  ~Mike.

• 96 Jay // May 29, 2010 at 11:08 pm

  how much clear? How many layers in a single stage is good… 6+? And does adding the clear to some single stage not allow mw to have that “no barrier” to the paint when waxing or touch ups?

• 97 Wayne // Jul 16, 2010 at 1:00 pm

  Is ppg water based paint ICI and ppg just bought the company for their water based line??? And you talk like ppg came up with it,no they bought it.

• 98 mike // Jul 16, 2010 at 6:28 pm

  Hello Wayne, PPG has their own line of water borne paint called Envirobase and ICI now Nexa has their own line of water borne paint. They are both very similar but I feel PPG has better clear coats then the Nexa line.

  Also PPG was in the development process with their line of water borne when they acquired ICI for their water technology. They also bought Max Meyer’s for their technology. Once they acquired both companies they finished their water borne line of Envirobase. With the acquisition of both ICI and Max Meyer’s they used these companies to produce the BEST water borne paint on the market today.

  http://www.ppg.com/coatings/maxmeyerengland/Pages/1000_History.aspx

  Thanks for the comment,

  ~Mike.

• 99 Ed // Aug 8, 2010 at 11:11 pm

  Hey Mike,
  We are currently using onyx WB. We do a lot bumpers and spot repairs- doors, fenders ect.. we have an opportunity to really increase our business . As you know when doing bumpers and spot repairs color matching is a huge issue. Have been using onyx for the past four months. Some colors take a ton of time to dry. Most times we have to tint and do a lot of spray outs to get colors acceptable to prevent kicking it out into other panels. Time, materials and frustration is not helping. We recently had S.W. come for a couple of days for demo purposes. Still have lots of questions. Color matching with them looks like an issue also. From reading above info looks like we should look at PPG ?

• 100 mike // Aug 8, 2010 at 11:54 pm

  Hello Ed, thanks for the comment. One thing you need to know right off the bat is PPG is just in the process of updating their color library. My variant deck is back at the jobber/distributor right now getting 200 out of 700 colors updated. Within the next six months or so I will have all the 800 colors updated.

  The one thing I know for sure is PPG has awesome color matches. I hate to admit this but I butt match many colors that most painters would laugh at and say NO WAY. Most of the time I blend but sometimes I have to butt match as that’s what I get paid for.

  So I know you will LOVE the colors in PPG’s library. You need to take a look at this system, after one week you will not want any other water system in your facility. It dries fast, you can sand it after it dries, you can do spot repairs with it with no haloing or any other common issues, and the colors are bang on for the most part and the one’s you have problems with just send me a question and I will help you out with your color problems.

  So try it out and let me know what you think!

  Thanks so much for the comment Ed, your welcome here anytime.

  ~Mike.

• 101 Dalton // Aug 12, 2010 at 11:05 am

  Our shop has been converted to PPG Envirobase for 9 months, and did not have any issues at all. Color match, spray ability, dry ing etc it could not be better, even in high humidity dries great. Anyone looking to convert, please give PPG a try, you will be impressed. I done research prior to this conversion and this is what we chose. PPG has their act together and does agreat job with representation and ongoing support.

• 102 mike // Aug 12, 2010 at 7:17 pm

  Hello Dalton, it is the winner by far when it comes to water borne base coat. PPG Envirobase HP becomes easier and easier to use the more you spray it. I have great success with this awesome product and I am glad to hear you are having great success as well.

  Thanks for your comment Dalton,

  ~Mike.

• 103 finishmaster // Aug 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm

  Hey Mike,
  What has been your experience with abrasives for prep, blending and finishing on PPG’s waterborne finishes? Have you heard of or used Eagle Abrasives line? e.g., Yellow Film, Tolex, Buflex, Super Assilex…

• 104 NEAC & Tow // Aug 18, 2010 at 1:51 pm

  Hello Mike,
  We’ve been in business in Ontario, Canada since 1989. After a long period of debating the pros and cons as to whether we should switch over to waterborne or retire, we have decided to keep going. We are also going with PPG. To make this short…where do we start? We have a supplier, but what “basic” equipment is needed? (for now, to get started) What type of gun? Any other suggetions?

  Thank you!
  Cindy

• 105 mike // Aug 19, 2010 at 4:33 pm

  Hello Cindy, thanks for the questions. You should be good with the equipment you have. How many man shop do you have, this is important for the size of your compressor.

  As per equipment such as paint guns, your PPG representative should supply you with a paint gun per booth, so if you have two booths then you will receive two Iwata W-400 LV paint guns. That is the gun I prefer to use for PPG Envirobase HP. They will also provide you with two tree stands and blowers (Iwata) for your paint booths. Other then that you are ready to go.

  Your PPG paint rep should be with you for the first couple of days when you start to spray the water borne.

  If you have any other questions or concerns feel free to drop me a message here on the Blog and I will answer your concerns as soon as I can.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

• 106 DON DEITER // Aug 26, 2010 at 9:04 pm

  all this talk on the water bourne system was great but what clears can we use over it does it take a speacial clear.

• 107 mike // Sep 7, 2010 at 7:48 pm

  Hello Don, PPG has two new clears out to use with Envirobase HP, EC700 and EC750. This is the clear you use with the water bourne base coat. If you have any other questions feel free to ask away.

  Thanks,

  ~Mike.

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