Comments on: PPG’s Waterborne Paint http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/ DEDICATED TO THE COLLISION REPAIR TECHNICIAN Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:49:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: mike http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-47333 mike Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:49:05 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-47333 Bo that's great. Glad to hear you found a product you love to spray and it works well in your shop. Confucius say, a happy painter is a productive painter. Thanks for leaving your feedback here, Cheers, ~Mike. Bo that’s great. Glad to hear you found a product you love to spray and it works well in your shop. Confucius say, a happy painter is a productive painter.

Thanks for leaving your feedback here,

Cheers,

~Mike.

]]> By: Bo http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-47100 Bo Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:28:12 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-47100 Hey guys, so after my last post my shop owner decided it was time to check out all these systems for ourselves. We brought in PPG, Dupont, Spies Hecker, Sikkens and Glasurit 90 line and tried them all. After some extensive head to head testing we decided to go with the clear solution and the product that gave us the most advantages in the most catagories, Sherwin-Williams. The AWX system is by far the fastest drying, has comparable color match capabilities to PPG (next closest) and has some advantages that none of the other systems could even come close to competing with. We use the HP process which cosists of the P30 primer, which is the only system that had 7 different colors of primer. plus the stuff dries and is ready to sand in 15 minutes! couldnt believe that. the base coat dries faster that PPG and sikkens and is much easier to sand and nib for in booth repairs or dirt spots. (most systems you can not do this) and the color blends much easier than any of the other systems with the use of their "500" blender. you can even use it to simulate a clear coat and double check the blend before you actually clear it! that was an awesome feature. then it comes down to clear coat. they showed us a couple clears that we werent big fans of at first, and as my perception of the product was starting to fall off they brought this clear called HPC21 out and blew my mind! I have never seen a clear that truly dries this fast with out any product failure like die back or solvent pop. I sprayed the clear, cleaned my gun, got a DA with some 1500 and by the time I walked back to the car which was just being pulled out of the booth (8 minutes after I sprayed it!) I put the DA on the hood and it powdered right up! couldnt believe it. No bake cycle, no heat and no problems. that stuff is fast and awesome! PPG has something like it but not nearly as fast or as easy to work wiht. All in all SW was definitly the right choice for us. we had ZERO problems during the demo, the color tools they have between the color chips and the online system are waaay ahead of the competition and make the painters life easy. Mike you mentioned they have hardly any chips for variants etc., I asked the rep about it and he showed me almost 3000 new chips that they added in the second half of last year and the first half of this year to, Maybe check it out again. there was only one color code in two weeks of demoing that SW didnt have. we had PPG and SW together demoing at the same time for a true comparison and SW put PPG to shame. many of the reasons are some of the changes they have made in the past couple months, give them another shot. in our first month with the product, we absolutely love it. the color is better, EVERYTHING, (primer, sealer, base and clear) is waaaay faster and much of it doesnt require any heat so Im excited to see how much our energy bill has gone down! should be about 40-50% The rep admitted that in the past couple years they have had their struggles but they have come a long way in the last 6 months or so and are definitly on the right track. not to mention the success of the company as a whole. I think they really are the wave of the future Hey guys, so after my last post my shop owner decided it was time to check out all these systems for ourselves. We brought in PPG, Dupont, Spies Hecker, Sikkens and Glasurit 90 line and tried them all. After some extensive head to head testing we decided to go with the clear solution and the product that gave us the most advantages in the most catagories, Sherwin-Williams. The AWX system is by far the fastest drying, has comparable color match capabilities to PPG (next closest) and has some advantages that none of the other systems could even come close to competing with. We use the HP process which cosists of the P30 primer, which is the only system that had 7 different colors of primer. plus the stuff dries and is ready to sand in 15 minutes! couldnt believe that. the base coat dries faster that PPG and sikkens and is much easier to sand and nib for in booth repairs or dirt spots. (most systems you can not do this) and the color blends much easier than any of the other systems with the use of their “500″ blender. you can even use it to simulate a clear coat and double check the blend before you actually clear it! that was an awesome feature.
then it comes down to clear coat. they showed us a couple clears that we werent big fans of at first, and as my perception of the product was starting to fall off they brought this clear called HPC21 out and blew my mind! I have never seen a clear that truly dries this fast with out any product failure like die back or solvent pop. I sprayed the clear, cleaned my gun, got a DA with some 1500 and by the time I walked back to the car which was just being pulled out of the booth (8 minutes after I sprayed it!) I put the DA on the hood and it powdered right up! couldnt believe it. No bake cycle, no heat and no problems. that stuff is fast and awesome! PPG has something like it but not nearly as fast or as easy to work wiht.

All in all SW was definitly the right choice for us. we had ZERO problems during the demo, the color tools they have between the color chips and the online system are waaay ahead of the competition and make the painters life easy.

Mike you mentioned they have hardly any chips for variants etc., I asked the rep about it and he showed me almost 3000 new chips that they added in the second half of last year and the first half of this year to, Maybe check it out again. there was only one color code in two weeks of demoing that SW didnt have. we had PPG and SW together demoing at the same time for a true comparison and SW put PPG to shame. many of the reasons are some of the changes they have made in the past couple months, give them another shot.

in our first month with the product, we absolutely love it. the color is better, EVERYTHING, (primer, sealer, base and clear) is waaaay faster and much of it doesnt require any heat so Im excited to see how much our energy bill has gone down! should be about 40-50%

The rep admitted that in the past couple years they have had their struggles but they have come a long way in the last 6 months or so and are definitly on the right track. not to mention the success of the company as a whole. I think they really are the wave of the future

]]> By: mike http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-46611 mike Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:47 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-46611 Hello Ray, thanks so much for providing a solution to Kate's issue. Really appreciate you taking the time and trying to help someone else who is struggling. Thanks, ~Mike Hello Ray, thanks so much for providing a solution to Kate’s issue. Really appreciate you taking the time and trying to help someone else who is struggling.

Thanks,

~Mike

]]> By: Ray http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-46603 Ray Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:14:36 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-46603 Kate, the airbrusher who had difficulty with some of the enviorbase colors covering. I did look into this and there may be some colors that are transparent but you should be able to get the color coverage that you are looking for with some of the different strenght tints. The air brush artist Shannon, uses mostly all Enviorbase and is having great success with it. She can help you if you will drop her a line at her website. check out theshannongallery.com She does some amazing work. She can also help you with color information. Ray Kate, the airbrusher who had difficulty with some of the enviorbase colors covering. I did look into this and there may be some colors that are transparent but you should be able to get the color coverage that you are looking for with some of the different strenght tints. The air brush artist Shannon, uses mostly all Enviorbase and is having great success with it. She can help you if you will drop her a line at her website. check out theshannongallery.com She does some amazing work. She can also help you with color information.

Ray

]]> By: mike http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-42781 mike Tue, 17 Jan 2012 04:02:28 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-42781 Hey Cody, sounds like a super busy collision repair facility. You will LOVE PPG Envirobase HP. You will also love all the great tools PPG has in their system. For one the colors on the variant deck actually match what you mix and spray. Secondly their colors are excellent, if you don't see a color in the swatches you can go online and see all field formulas in their database of colors. When online, you can see "Specials" for a specific and you can also see the details of that special, Year, make, plant manufactured. As you know, every paint manufacturer has those bad colors and PPG has a few as well. Once you do a few cards and build up a large color library, you will be fine with those bad colors. Application of PPG Envirobase HP is very easy and it dries very quickly using tree stand blowers or booth mounted blowers. Two or three medium coats and a drop coat "Control coat" as PPG calls it and your ready to clear. PPG in my opinion has the best clears on the market and they just launched a speed clear to make those small jobs go in and out very quickly with no bake required. If you already know your stuff then making the switch for you to PPG will be very simple. I know you will love the product Cody. If you need any further information, don't hesitate to leave another comment here on the Blog. Cheers, ~Mike Hey Cody, sounds like a super busy collision repair facility. You will LOVE PPG Envirobase HP. You will also love all the great tools PPG has in their system. For one the colors on the variant deck actually match what you mix and spray. Secondly their colors are excellent, if you don’t see a color in the swatches you can go online and see all field formulas in their database of colors. When online, you can see “Specials” for a specific and you can also see the details of that special, Year, make, plant manufactured. As you know, every paint manufacturer has those bad colors and PPG has a few as well. Once you do a few cards and build up a large color library, you will be fine with those bad colors.

Application of PPG Envirobase HP is very easy and it dries very quickly using tree stand blowers or booth mounted blowers. Two or three medium coats and a drop coat “Control coat” as PPG calls it and your ready to clear. PPG in my opinion has the best clears on the market and they just launched a speed clear to make those small jobs go in and out very quickly with no bake required.

If you already know your stuff then making the switch for you to PPG will be very simple. I know you will love the product Cody.

If you need any further information, don’t hesitate to leave another comment here on the Blog.

Cheers,

~Mike

]]> By: Cody http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-42728 Cody Tue, 17 Jan 2012 00:36:56 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-42728 Hey Mike, I have been painting for 3 years and we are thinking about switching to PPG WB. I have been spraying Standox and Dupont this whole time. I paint 40 to 60 cars a week and this change is up to me. How hard is the transition going to be? I'm very open minded and I pick up on things very,very fast! Any feedback you could give me would be greatly appreciated! thanks Cody Hey Mike, I have been painting for 3 years and we are thinking about switching to PPG WB. I have been spraying Standox and Dupont this whole time. I paint 40 to 60 cars a week and this change is up to me. How hard is the transition going to be? I’m very open minded and I pick up on things very,very fast! Any feedback you could give me would be greatly appreciated!

thanks Cody

]]> By: larry http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-37820 larry Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:57:34 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-37820 Hey Mike I havent herd u talk about the new spies and standox waterborne yet, this stuff is magic, and super fast, also both spies and standox have some really nice new low voc clears now. In my opinion PPG realy needs to come out with a nice looking easy to use glamour clear the sooner the better. with proper conditions and knolege the Dupont products are faster than ppg and definitialy sickens hands down. Just saying Hey Mike I havent herd u talk about the new spies and standox waterborne yet, this stuff is magic, and super fast, also both spies and standox have some really nice new low voc clears now. In my opinion PPG realy needs to come out with a nice looking easy to use glamour clear the sooner the better. with proper conditions and knolege the Dupont products are faster than ppg and definitialy sickens hands down. Just saying

]]> By: mike http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-33386 mike Wed, 04 Jan 2012 00:57:32 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-33386 Hey Bo, having used the product for 6 months and really trying to make it work, I found the product to be total garbage in my opinion. Their color tools are NOT good and in most cases on newer vehicles, they don't have color variant chips to look at before you select a color. I also had MAJOR issues with their clear coat, solvent popping like crazy. Die back issues you name it, I had it. I tried lowering the heat in my booth, not using the blowers during the bake cycle, increasing the time on the bake cycle, slowing down the reducer etc etc, and I could not correct the problems. I also had problems with color matches, seedy base, the base not laying down correctly and so on. The old saying is "you get what you pay for". What you have heard about Sherwin Williams "great things" needs to be tested out by you personally, trust me on this one. If you spray PPG or Sikkens and then you spray SW, you will NEVER use SW no matter how cheep it is. PPG is the leader in color, no question about it. Once you use PPG you have access to their online color library , there you will find "Specials" that other painters have created, or PPG has created to give you more selections to choose from. These specials also include information on where the vehicle was manufactured helping you narrow it down even more. The SW shop I worked for, I had to contact their rep to gain access to "field formulas" which was a complete waste of my valuable time and those formulas usually never matched anyway, wasting even more time and paint !!!! It would be very wise to look at either PPG or Sikkens as a first choie for your paint and SW as your last. Thanks, ~Mike. Hey Bo, having used the product for 6 months and really trying to make it work, I found the product to be total garbage in my opinion. Their color tools are NOT good and in most cases on newer vehicles, they don’t have color variant chips to look at before you select a color. I also had MAJOR issues with their clear coat, solvent popping like crazy. Die back issues you name it, I had it. I tried lowering the heat in my booth, not using the blowers during the bake cycle, increasing the time on the bake cycle, slowing down the reducer etc etc, and I could not correct the problems.

I also had problems with color matches, seedy base, the base not laying down correctly and so on. The old saying is “you get what you pay for”.

What you have heard about Sherwin Williams “great things” needs to be tested out by you personally, trust me on this one. If you spray PPG or Sikkens and then you spray SW, you will NEVER use SW no matter how cheep it is. PPG is the leader in color, no question about it. Once you use PPG you have access to their online color library , there you will find “Specials” that other painters have created, or PPG has created to give you more selections to choose from. These specials also include information on where the vehicle was manufactured helping you narrow it down even more. The SW shop I worked for, I had to contact their rep to gain access to “field formulas” which was a complete waste of my valuable time and those formulas usually never matched anyway, wasting even more time and paint !!!!

It would be very wise to look at either PPG or Sikkens as a first choie for your paint and SW as your last.

Thanks,

~Mike.

]]> By: Bo http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-33363 Bo Wed, 04 Jan 2012 00:07:07 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-33363 Hey Guys, Anybody know anything about Sherwin-Williams waterborne? I keep hearing everybody talking about PPG but Ive heard great things about Sherwin and how their waterborne system is taking over in California. I know they are cheaper because they are the only company you go direct through instead of using a jobber, but what do you guys know/think about thier product?? Thanks Bo Hey Guys,

Anybody know anything about Sherwin-Williams waterborne? I keep hearing everybody talking about PPG but Ive heard great things about Sherwin and how their waterborne system is taking over in California. I know they are cheaper because they are the only company you go direct through instead of using a jobber, but what do you guys know/think about thier product??

Thanks
Bo

]]> By: Kate http://theautobodyblog.com/ppgs-waterborne-paint/comment-page-4/#comment-7807 Kate Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:48:31 +0000 http://theautobodyblog.com/?p=11#comment-7807 I've been doing automotive airbrush for 30 years, so I've been through the evolution from laquer to acrylic enamel to base/clear. I haven't done much airbrush work in the past year or so, and what I did was painted in base. I did some test work with my airbrush today using PPG envirobase, and I have to say that while I was initially happy with the way it flowed through the airbrush, after an hour of playing around, I had changed my mind. The coverage is terrible. There is simply no other way to characterize it. Consulting with the shop painter, he confirmed that he now uses nearly twice as many passes to achieve coverage and has some of the same flow issues I was seeing. I paint everything freehand, so this requires my paint to have very good opacity, or my day will be spent painting and repainting detail work many times over. This was the case with the Envirobase - I tried mixing the paint as recommended with thinner, experimented with less thinner, and finally attempted to spray it unthinned at all, and found that the paint simply does not have the opacity to produce the black lines required to do finish detail. (These lines are the thickness of a thick pencil line - I do work on small pieces like goal masks) Furthermore, after a few minutes, I found the Envirobase would clog, and then break loose, into a watery splat - the viscosity would not remain stable. In the past, using PPG base, I could take my colours straight out of the rack and these lines would be intense enough in a single pass, perhaps two. In the space of the hour of experimenting I went from planning two jobs for later this week, to phoning my clients to tell them I'll be sending them back. I'm very disappointed, to say the least. I’ve been doing automotive airbrush for 30 years, so I’ve been through the evolution from laquer to acrylic enamel to base/clear. I haven’t done much airbrush work in the past year or so, and what I did was painted in base.

I did some test work with my airbrush today using PPG envirobase, and I have to say that while I was initially happy with the way it flowed through the airbrush, after an hour of playing around, I had changed my mind.

The coverage is terrible. There is simply no other way to characterize it. Consulting with the shop painter, he confirmed that he now uses nearly twice as many passes to achieve coverage and has some of the same flow issues I was seeing.

I paint everything freehand, so this requires my paint to have very good opacity, or my day will be spent painting and repainting detail work many times over.

This was the case with the Envirobase – I tried mixing the paint as recommended with thinner, experimented with less thinner, and finally attempted to spray it unthinned at all, and found that the paint simply does not have the opacity to produce the black lines required to do finish detail.

(These lines are the thickness of a thick pencil line – I do work on small pieces like goal masks)

Furthermore, after a few minutes, I found the Envirobase would clog, and then break loose, into a watery splat – the viscosity would not remain stable.

In the past, using PPG base, I could take my colours straight out of the rack and these lines would be intense enough in a single pass, perhaps two.

In the space of the hour of experimenting I went from planning two jobs for later this week, to phoning my clients to tell them I’ll be sending them back. I’m very disappointed, to say the least.

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